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#1 Gintoki

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Posted 24 August 2018 - 12:29 AM

This has been quite the controversial situation really, I only really started studying the situation about a month ago, other than mildly heading about it on the news, reading articles ect. What we do know at least is that white South African farmers are being disproportionately murdered when compared to murder rates for any other reason in the ball part of around 10 times that number. People have theorised that it is because of the Apartheid, long held racial tension between the races, and this does largely hold water when you do listen to some of the stories of the murders, that are absolutely gruesome, under the guise of a robbery people are brutally murdered, entire families. Additionally, the SA government are now looking to change legislation, allowing for the government to strip white farmers of their land.

 

If you listen to those on the left it is nothing but a conspiracy theory furthered by white supremacist and neo-nazi Lauren Southern, that these murders are vastly overexaggerated and misrepresent the actual situation on the ground. This all of course gained a whole lot more attention when Donald Trump tweetied that he would like to follow this situation more closely. While I do not think that there is quite the white genocide happening, it is clear that there is at least some form of governmental corruption in both the investigation of these murders, the due process involved in the justice system, and the legislation being introduced. What does everyone else think?


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#2 darklord1848

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Posted 24 August 2018 - 1:14 AM

Boar War round 2?


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#3 The duck

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Posted 24 August 2018 - 1:56 AM

I know plenty of men and women that left SA and came to the Netherlands because it was not safe anymore.

I am not sure if you can say that it is a conspiracy theory,but I do not know the full details. What I do know is that security and gated communities are vital for survival in SA, the government wants to redistribute land and deaths of the Boers are often very gruesome.
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#4 Bludsvept

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Posted 24 August 2018 - 8:55 AM

Lots of Saffas in Australia who only ever have bad things to say about South Africa. Everyone has a story about someone they know who was a victim of violent crime.

 

Zimbabwe all over again.


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#5 Potrahs

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Posted 24 August 2018 - 3:50 PM

https://omny.fm/show...forum-on-farm-m


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#6 2avage

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Posted 24 August 2018 - 5:06 PM

Besides the violence, poverty, and harsh tyranical governmental rule, add stripping current land owners of their property in favor of redistribution of wealth. Never heard any positive stories from that area of the world.
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#7 try t0 live

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Posted 24 August 2018 - 7:45 PM

The only reason white farmers have their land is because of corrupt government legislation that reserved profitable areas of land to white people. You're shocked that the government wants to reverse the damage done to their native population due to this corruption?

 

Are any of us surprised that the native population would revolt? No sympathy from me tbh, and kudos to them for attempting to provide reparations to their people for the misuse of government that diminished their opportunities in life.


Edited by try t0 live, 24 August 2018 - 7:56 PM.

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#8 Gintoki

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Posted 24 August 2018 - 9:00 PM

The only reason white farmers have their land is because of corrupt government legislation that reserved profitable areas of land to white people. You're shocked that the government wants to reverse the damage done to their native population due to this corruption?

Are any of us surprised that the native population would revolt? No sympathy from me tbh, and kudos to them for attempting to provide reparations to their people for the misuse of government that diminished their opportunities in life.

Apartheid happened in 1948, White African farmers today have nothing to do with it and earnt their land legally. It should be the government forming programs and helping natives whether it be through health care, psychologists and community programs, not just stealing land from people that did nothing wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Also, the land in its current state was not profitable when white farmers originally got their hands on it. They had to employ complex irrigation systems and farming to make it so, which the natives were not capable of doing so. With the introduction of these systems more food was produced and more people were able to eat.

Edited by Gintoki, 24 August 2018 - 9:02 PM.

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#9 try t0 live

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Posted 24 August 2018 - 9:35 PM

 

The only reason white farmers have their land is because of corrupt government legislation that reserved profitable areas of land to white people. You're shocked that the government wants to reverse the damage done to their native population due to this corruption?

Are any of us surprised that the native population would revolt? No sympathy from me tbh, and kudos to them for attempting to provide reparations to their people for the misuse of government that diminished their opportunities in life.

Apartheid happened in 1948, White African farmers today have nothing to do with it and earnt their land legally. It should be the government forming programs and helping natives whether it be through health care, psychologists and community programs, not just stealing land from people that did nothing wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Also, the land in its current state was not profitable when white farmers originally got their hands on it. They had to employ complex irrigation systems and farming to make it so, which the natives were not capable of doing so. With the introduction of these systems more food was produced and more people were able to eat.

 

Thank the lord white jesus for delivering these white saviors upon the world.


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#10 franzk

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Posted 24 August 2018 - 9:43 PM

 

The only reason white farmers have their land is because of corrupt government legislation that reserved profitable areas of land to white people. You're shocked that the government wants to reverse the damage done to their native population due to this corruption?

Are any of us surprised that the native population would revolt? No sympathy from me tbh, and kudos to them for attempting to provide reparations to their people for the misuse of government that diminished their opportunities in life.

Apartheid happened in 1948, White African farmers today have nothing to do with it and earnt their land legally. It should be the government forming programs and helping natives whether it be through health care, psychologists and community programs, not just stealing land from people that did nothing wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Also, the land in its current state was not profitable when white farmers originally got their hands on it. They had to employ complex irrigation systems and farming to make it so, which the natives were not capable of doing so. With the introduction of these systems more food was produced and more people were able to eat.

 

No, colonially oppressive policies and forcibly taking land from the native populations doesn't make it legal, even if its 200 years after, what are you smoking?
Not justifying the murder of white farmers, but violence begets violence.
As my Dutch friend used to say when I asked him how the people in Holland were so nice and friendly, 'we exported all our assholes to South Africa'
:-P


 

 

The only reason white farmers have their land is because of corrupt government legislation that reserved profitable areas of land to white people. You're shocked that the government wants to reverse the damage done to their native population due to this corruption?

Are any of us surprised that the native population would revolt? No sympathy from me tbh, and kudos to them for attempting to provide reparations to their people for the misuse of government that diminished their opportunities in life.

Apartheid happened in 1948, White African farmers today have nothing to do with it and earnt their land legally. It should be the government forming programs and helping natives whether it be through health care, psychologists and community programs, not just stealing land from people that did nothing wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Also, the land in its current state was not profitable when white farmers originally got their hands on it. They had to employ complex irrigation systems and farming to make it so, which the natives were not capable of doing so. With the introduction of these systems more food was produced and more people were able to eat.

 

Thank the lord white jesus for delivering these white saviors upon the world.

 

:XD:  I know right. This is the parable of the loaves and fish, except with complex irrigation systems and farming.


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#11 Gintoki

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Posted 24 August 2018 - 9:45 PM

 

 

The only reason white farmers have their land is because of corrupt government legislation that reserved profitable areas of land to white people. You're shocked that the government wants to reverse the damage done to their native population due to this corruption?

Are any of us surprised that the native population would revolt? No sympathy from me tbh, and kudos to them for attempting to provide reparations to their people for the misuse of government that diminished their opportunities in life.

Apartheid happened in 1948, White African farmers today have nothing to do with it and earnt their land legally. It should be the government forming programs and helping natives whether it be through health care, psychologists and community programs, not just stealing land from people that did nothing wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Also, the land in its current state was not profitable when white farmers originally got their hands on it. They had to employ complex irrigation systems and farming to make it so, which the natives were not capable of doing so. With the introduction of these systems more food was produced and more people were able to eat.

 

Thank the lord white jesus for delivering these white saviors upon the world.

 

I'm glad to see that we agree/


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#12 franzk

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Posted 24 August 2018 - 9:45 PM

Lots of Saffas in Australia who only ever have bad things to say about South Africa. Everyone has a story about someone they know who was a victim of violent crime.

 

Zimbabwe all over again.

Unfortunately, the Saffas I have encountered in Australia seem to have deep rooted racist tendencies. One of my colleagues told a South African lady she was looking nice and brown (the suntan) and she got all offended. Then it was pointed out to her, that it was a compliment and she tried to laugh it off, unsuccessfully. :innocent:


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#13 Gintoki

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Posted 24 August 2018 - 9:54 PM

.

 

White farmers in 2018 did not murder and rape to obtain their land, they bought it with monetary investments or otherwise inherited it. They do not owe anything to anybody. How it was obtained back in 1948 was illegal, the farmers today had nothing to do with these illegal takeovers. 


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#14 Bludsvept

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Posted 24 August 2018 - 10:04 PM

 

 

The only reason white farmers have their land is because of corrupt government legislation that reserved profitable areas of land to white people. You're shocked that the government wants to reverse the damage done to their native population due to this corruption?

Are any of us surprised that the native population would revolt? No sympathy from me tbh, and kudos to them for attempting to provide reparations to their people for the misuse of government that diminished their opportunities in life.

Apartheid happened in 1948, White African farmers today have nothing to do with it and earnt their land legally. It should be the government forming programs and helping natives whether it be through health care, psychologists and community programs, not just stealing land from people that did nothing wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Also, the land in its current state was not profitable when white farmers originally got their hands on it. They had to employ complex irrigation systems and farming to make it so, which the natives were not capable of doing so. With the introduction of these systems more food was produced and more people were able to eat.

 

Thank the lord white jesus for delivering these white saviors upon the world.

 

This but unironically.


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#15 franzk

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Posted 24 August 2018 - 11:07 PM

 

.

 

White farmers in 2018 did not murder and rape to obtain their land, they bought it with monetary investments or otherwise inherited it. They do not owe anything to anybody. How it was obtained back in 1948 was illegal, the farmers today had nothing to do with these illegal takeovers. 

 

No more or no less illegal than what was done in 1948, if they are being killed and their land taken back. I do not know if it is true or not, I have not followed the news.

The people who lived on the land before it was colonized did not ask to be subjugated or treated as inferior, or beaten or raped.

They did not owe anything to anybody either.

While visiting atrocity with atrocity just perpetuates the cycle, this is how the world has always been.

Just because we have this veneer of pseudo decency, does not mean that it is not a harsh and terribly cruel place.

I personally do not have it in my power to stop the killing of farmers, be they white or black or brown or yellow.

Neither do you, I think.

So in the words of Dr Manhattan, without condemning or condoning, I understand :#


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#16 The duck

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 1:45 AM

The only reason white farmers have their land is because of corrupt government legislation that reserved profitable areas of land to white people. You're shocked that the government wants to reverse the damage done to their native population due to this corruption?
Are any of us surprised that the native population would revolt? No sympathy from me tbh, and kudos to them for attempting to provide reparations to their people for the misuse of government that diminished their opportunities in life.

Apartheid happened in 1948, White African farmers today have nothing to do with it and earnt their land legally. It should be the government forming programs and helping natives whether it be through health care, psychologists and community programs, not just stealing land from people that did nothing wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Also, the land in its current state was not profitable when white farmers originally got their hands on it. They had to employ complex irrigation systems and farming to make it so, which the natives were not capable of doing so. With the introduction of these systems more food was produced and more people were able to eat.
Thank the lord white jesus for delivering these white saviors upon the world.
Not an argument lol -5 points for Griffindor

Here is food for thought though

The original people in South Africa are Khoisan. How many people living in South Africa today are Khoisan? They are the only rightful owners under your logic. Bantu people, and last but not least the Zulu and Shaka were just as much invaders in this land. The difference is that Bantu people migrated several years earlier...

I do think that wars between the British and Dutch were not good by today's standards. I also think Apartheid was not good. That is a fact, isn't it?

But the Boers of today have nothing to do with the events of their ancestors. At least, they probably do not agree with it. Should there be more equal land division to give a chance to non-white farmers? Yes, very much. But the current outburst of violence is worrying and cannot be justified.

It is said men like to think in images. Imagine coming home and realizing your home has been broken into. Not only that, your kid's head has been smashed under your car's front, your old man has been beaten to dad and your wife.. well I think you get the picture. But hey, no sympathy from you right? Let's just blame the system and the past and use that as an excuse for violence. The past gave rise to the events of today, but the present people cannot be accountable physically for the past.
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#17 try t0 live

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 12:54 PM

 

 

 

The only reason white farmers have their land is because of corrupt government legislation that reserved profitable areas of land to white people. You're shocked that the government wants to reverse the damage done to their native population due to this corruption?
Are any of us surprised that the native population would revolt? No sympathy from me tbh, and kudos to them for attempting to provide reparations to their people for the misuse of government that diminished their opportunities in life.

Apartheid happened in 1948, White African farmers today have nothing to do with it and earnt their land legally. It should be the government forming programs and helping natives whether it be through health care, psychologists and community programs, not just stealing land from people that did nothing wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Also, the land in its current state was not profitable when white farmers originally got their hands on it. They had to employ complex irrigation systems and farming to make it so, which the natives were not capable of doing so. With the introduction of these systems more food was produced and more people were able to eat.
Thank the lord white jesus for delivering these white saviors upon the world.
Not an argument lol -5 points for Griffindor

Here is food for thought though

The original people in South Africa are Khoisan. How many people living in South Africa today are Khoisan? They are the only rightful owners under your logic. Bantu people, and last but not least the Zulu and Shaka were just as much invaders in this land. The difference is that Bantu people migrated several years earlier...

I do think that wars between the British and Dutch were not good by today's standards. I also think Apartheid was not good. That is a fact, isn't it?

But the Boers of today have nothing to do with the events of their ancestors. At least, they probably do not agree with it. Should there be more equal land division to give a chance to non-white farmers? Yes, very much. But the current outburst of violence is worrying and cannot be justified.

It is said men like to think in images. Imagine coming home and realizing your home has been broken into. Not only that, your kid's head has been smashed under your car's front, your old man has been beaten to dad and your wife.. well I think you get the picture. But hey, no sympathy from you right? Let's just blame the system and the past and use that as an excuse for violence. The past gave rise to the events of today, but the present people cannot be accountable physically for the past.

 

Spare me the hypothetical atrocities, im a black man in America you think this is a foreign concept to me? No one would have to fear anything if they hadn't cast the first stone, you think one generation removed absolves you of the crime? Same argument sympathizers use nowadays to combat an argument in America for reparations or affirmative action. "SO WHAT AFRICAN SLAVES CREATED ALL OF THE WEALTH IN THIS NATION, WE OWE THEM NOTHING. THEY SHOULD BE HAPPY WE BROUGHT THEM INTO THE MODERN WORLD" 

 

Tell these stupid white farmers to liquidate and leave safely with their stolen equity. You're off your rocker if you think people should let things go just because a generation has passed.... How about these white farmers let go of the land they stole?

 

 

Btw the SA Government passing legislation to strip their land, is LEGAL. Woe is the life of the white man right?


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#18 The duck

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 5:15 PM

try t0 live, on 25 Aug 2018 - 7:54 PM, said:

The duck, on 25 Aug 2018 - 08:45 AM, said:

try t0 live, on 25 Aug 2018 - 04:35 AM, said:

Gintoki, on 25 Aug 2018 - 04:00 AM, said:

try t0 live, on 25 Aug 2018 - 02:45 AM, said:
The only reason white farmers have their land is because of corrupt government legislation that reserved profitable areas of land to white people. You're shocked that the government wants to reverse the damage done to their native population due to this corruption?
Are any of us surprised that the native population would revolt? No sympathy from me tbh, and kudos to them for attempting to provide reparations to their people for the misuse of government that diminished their opportunities in life.

Apartheid happened in 1948, White African farmers today have nothing to do with it and earnt their land legally. It should be the government forming programs and helping natives whether it be through health care, psychologists and community programs, not just stealing land from people that did nothing wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Also, the land in its current state was not profitable when white farmers originally got their hands on it. They had to employ complex irrigation systems and farming to make it so, which the natives were not capable of doing so. With the introduction of these systems more food was produced and more people were able to eat.

Thank the lord white jesus for delivering these white saviors upon the world.

Not an argument lol -5 points for Griffindor

Here is food for thought though

The original people in South Africa are Khoisan. How many people living in South Africa today are Khoisan? They are the only rightful owners under your logic. Bantu people, and last but not least the Zulu and Shaka were just as much invaders in this land. The difference is that Bantu people migrated several years earlier...

I do think that wars between the British and Dutch were not good by today's standards. I also think Apartheid was not good. That is a fact, isn't it?

But the Boers of today have nothing to do with the events of their ancestors. At least, they probably do not agree with it. Should there be more equal land division to give a chance to non-white farmers? Yes, very much. But the current outburst of violence is worrying and cannot be justified.

It is said men like to think in images. Imagine coming home and realizing your home has been broken into. Not only that, your kid's head has been smashed under your car's front, your old man has been beaten to dad and your wife.. well I think you get the picture. But hey, no sympathy from you right? Let's just blame the system and the past and use that as an excuse for violence. The past gave rise to the events of today, but the present people cannot be accountable physically for the past.

Spare me the hypothetical atrocities, im a black man in America you think this is a foreign concept to me? No one would have to fear anything if they hadn't cast the first stone, you think one generation removed absolves you of the crime? Same argument sympathizers use nowadays to combat an argument in America for reparations or affirmative action. "SO WHAT AFRICAN SLAVES CREATED ALL OF THE WEALTH IN THIS NATION, WE OWE THEM NOTHING. THEY SHOULD BE HAPPY WE BROUGHT THEM INTO THE MODERN WORLD"

Tell these stupid white farmers to liquidate and leave safely with their stolen equity. You're off your rocker if you think people should let things go just because a generation has passed.... How about these white farmers let go of the land they stole?


Btw the SA Government passing legislation to strip their land, is LEGAL. Woe is the life of the white man right?

Hypothetical? Hold my beer



That not enough? Here, a 645 PDF describing most of the murders until 2012 http://historyreview...outh-Africa.pdf

Here, another link for resources about the period of apartheid in general http://www.volkstaat...&#38;Itemid=147

Quote
No one would have to fear anything if they hadn't cast the first stone, you think one generation removed absolves you of the crime?

So, an eye for eye, a tooth for a tooth? Is your heart that dark? Not gonna comment on the rest as this appears to be just a monologue outlining your view on the US and not related to SA at all. But I do hope you understand US and SA are not identical. Your problems are not identical to their problems..

Quote
Tell these stupid white farmers to liquidate and leave safely with their stolen equity. You're off your rocker if you think people should let things go just because a generation has passed.... How about these white farmers let go of the land they stole?

So you would have prefered the scenario where the farmers never came and left the ground unusable? You do know literally no one lived there first except the Khoisan, right? You do know the population in SA grew massively due to downward migration, right? If anything the land should belong solely to the Khoisan people in that case... but if you really believe that then I respect your case. On the other hand, that assumes as Africa as one (nation) large nation while you and I both know the diversity of many tribes left many different borderlines within the old continent. Perhaps everyone should have stayed at home, but essentially that argument can be made for the entire world history (No Rome, China, US, and so on).

Also if this is about the land grab only why are the murders so gruesome? Take belongings and let them be. Can you send you some material but that would be NSFW so if you really wanna see it just reply though a quick twitter search gives plenty of examples.

What have children, women, elderly of today done wrong to be invaded and murdered in a gruesome way? Do you really think that is okay? How do you reconcile this with what you've been taught when you were young?

My advice for now for you is not to think in hate, in the end that eats you from within as thoughts evolve into mental and physical actions.
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#19 Crest227

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 6:13 PM

It's laughable to see the argument of an eye for an eye. That's essentially what's occuring here. O my ancestors were wronged, therefore in 2018 I'm entitled to wrong you! I feel like civilization and humanity as a whole has been regressing for a signifiant time. Just seeing anyone try to condone the act of stealing someone elses land is pathetic in my eyes. Over 70 years ago, where do we cut the line off of how long is too long ago? Should Jewish people be entitled to Egyptians land because they were slaves? Who are Egyptians to this date? Or perhaps we should spend eternity comprehending how everyone else wronged each other, instead of just trying to build something our damn selves lol. Entitlement is one of the worst things we, as humans suffer from.


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#20 try t0 live

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Posted 29 August 2018 - 6:03 PM

Meh, I'll correct myself a little bit here. I lied, I do have sympathy for the farmers, I have sympathy for everyone its a horrible trait I'm working on reigning in. Nobody is denying the death of white farmers in South Africa, we are denying that this should be considered racially charged or a genocide. 

There is no evidence that these crimes are being committed based on race, rather the country is just experiencing very high rates of crime and murder due to an extreme gap in wealth. Black South Africans are 80% of the population, but only own 4% of the land. This means the black population is vastly more impoverished, therefore vastly more likely to commit crime. And guess who has all of the wealth effectively making them prey in such an environment? White farmers.

 

Make sense? 

 

It's like saying white people are victims of petty thievery more than blacks are, I'm very confident that the facts would support this theory as the racial income gap in America is enormous. Thus the impoverished blacks are more likely to be theives, and the wealthier white people are more likely to be stolen from.

 

There could be absolutely no racial motivation at all, but FOX and the president don't care to prove if there is or isn't.  


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