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#1541 Wee Man

Wee Man

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Posted 14 August 2018 - 4:18 AM

Pretty simple they delete VR's topic and let CT's topic closed hanging in there, same rule breaking, different way of dealing with it, better rename zybez to vanguard.net already


I already explained this to Adenina on discord but I'll repeat it here. The object of moderating both topics was to remove the private information that was leaked and end the discussions. Deleting VRs topic or removing the leak and closing CT's topic accomplishes that goal, just two different staff members using two different moderating methods to achieve the same outcome. I don't have a problem with the decision to do either.

EDIT: This won't be discussed further.
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#1542 Rj deathlord1

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Posted 15 August 2018 - 10:43 AM

Appoint non bias mods.
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Violent Resolution - www.vr-rs.com/forums

Clans Closed: Corruption, The Titans, Solace, Rot v1.

#1543 Wee Man

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Posted 15 August 2018 - 10:51 AM

Appoint non bias mods.


Done!
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#1544 The duck

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Posted 15 August 2018 - 11:35 AM

Appoint non bias mods.


Hi there
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#1545 Rj deathlord1

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Posted 15 August 2018 - 12:34 PM

Appoint non bias mods.


Hi there

Two bias mods quote my post. Shock. Surprised I've not been banned again...21 days for calling someone unemployed last time
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Violent Resolution - www.vr-rs.com/forums

Clans Closed: Corruption, The Titans, Solace, Rot v1.

#1546 Wee Man

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    Чистой ненависти номер один

Posted 15 August 2018 - 12:36 PM

Appoint non bias mods.


Hi there


Two bias mods quote my post. Shock. Surprised I've not been banned again...21 days for calling someone unemployed last time


It's not our fault you can't understand why shit talking someone's personal life isn't a nice thing to do.
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#1547 Adrenalized

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Posted 15 August 2018 - 1:07 PM

Appoint non bias mods.

Hi there
Two bias mods quote my post. Shock. Surprised I've not been banned again...21 days for calling someone unemployed last time
It's not our fault you can't understand why **** talking someone's personal life isn't a nice thing to do.
You're one to talk.. lmfao I would honestly agree with RJ and say that there's a few mods that most definitely should try to be better members of the community rather than being so toxic it would def make zybez more appealing. However take this as you wish I truly don't think anything will change and it's no skin off my back. The worst part about zybez is the toxicity and then when you have mods that are just as toxic you do nothing but show new community members that those type of actions are accepted and they shouldn't be.
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#1548 Wee Man

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Posted 15 August 2018 - 1:13 PM

You're one to talk.. lmfao I would honestly agree with RJ and say that there's a few mods that most definitely should try to be better members of the community rather than being so toxic it would def make zybez more appealing. However take this as you wish I truly don't think anything will change and it's no skin off my back. The worst part about zybez is the toxicity and then when you have mods that are just as toxic you do nothing but show new community members that those type of actions are accepted and they shouldn't be.


The toxicity stems from the clans not the staff.
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#1549 Adrenalized

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Posted 15 August 2018 - 3:04 PM

You're one to talk.. lmfao I would honestly agree with RJ and say that there's a few mods that most definitely should try to be better members of the community rather than being so toxic it would def make zybez more appealing. However take this as you wish I truly don't think anything will change and it's no skin off my back. The worst part about zybez is the toxicity and then when you have mods that are just as toxic you do nothing but show new community members that those type of actions are accepted and they shouldn't be.

The toxicity stems from the clans not the staff.
sounds like the exact reply a toxic staff member would post. Not saying it's you obviously but how do you expect zybez to get better if you just brush off anything someone says critical of zybez. With your short reply and lack of effort to try to explain as to why that's not the problem you just simply brush it off like a person who's on zybez opinion doesn't matter. So what's the point of even having this thread if you don't accept and try to understand constructive criticism.
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#1550 Wee Man

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Posted 15 August 2018 - 3:29 PM

how do you expect zybez to get better if you just brush off anything someone says critical of zybez.


I've been moderating the clan discussion section for 7 years at this point and I can tell you wholeheartedly that the criticism we receive tends to be either not constructive (Stop being biased!) or not something that staff can change (Toxicity within the clan world). There's been plenty of things over the years we've had suggested and actually decided to implement, things like the third party posting, the rules regarding ragging or even the recent rule change from February to try and fit into how the current clan scene is. The sad reality is that most of the time we just get shitty complaints, hand over fist, because things don't go your way or they don't help you out but we can't just have things the way you want them, we have to try and make the site a place for everyone. What you consider toxic may not be true for other people, what you might consider an act of bias might actually be pretty fair when you look at it from a neutral point of view. Simple fact is that the staff have done everything we can to make things fair for everyone and the people that disagree with that tend to be people who can't see the forest for the trees usually because they simply don't care about anyone else and they only want what works for them, their clan and their way of doing things.

You're welcome to bring up specific instances where you think genuine constructive criticism has been "brushed off" and I'm more than happy to explain it to you.


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#1551 Adrenalized

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Posted 15 August 2018 - 3:51 PM

how do you expect zybez to get better if you just brush off anything someone says critical of zybez.

I've been moderating the clan discussion section for 7 years at this point and I can tell you wholeheartedly that the criticism we receive tends to be either not constructive (Stop being biased!) or not something that staff can change (Toxicity within the clan world). There's been plenty of things over the years we've had suggested and actually decided to implement, things like the third party posting, the rules regarding ragging or even the recent rule change from February to try and fit into how the current clan scene is. The sad reality is that most of the time we just get ****ty complaints, hand over fist, because things don't go your way or they don't help you out but we can't just have things the way you want them, we have to try and make the site a place for everyone. What you consider toxic may not be true for other people, what you might consider an act of bias might actually be pretty fair when you look at it from a neutral point of view. Simple fact is that the staff have done everything we can to make things fair for everyone and the people that disagree with that tend to be people who can't see the forest for the trees usually because they simply don't care about anyone else and they only want what works for them, their clan and their way of doing things.
You're welcome to bring up specific instances where you think genuine constructive criticism has been "brushed off" and I'm more than happy to explain it to you.
I already pointed it out with you're lackluster reply to my first comment. I appreciate you taking the time to actually explain the reasoning behind you brushing off my comment now though that's all I ask. I will agree that the toxicity comes from the clan world but the moderators run the forum/section should be the one to lay down the rules. If rules are laid down and people know that toxicity/bait/flame banter won't be allowed and there's seriously consequences for these actions I think people would change. However if it's allowed to continue on the forums without anything being brought up then how can anyone expect change. I feel like when I first joined zybez all these fake winning topics aka bait topics were alot more controlled than they are now. Legit if you posted a topic like that before EOC chances are it would be locked fairly quickly. If there was actual work done to understand how these fights truly go from a moderator of the sections point of view then maybe they would be able to weed out these topics that are made solely to bait another clan into a flame war. Anyways I personally hope it does change I guess well see in the near future if anything is actually done. I can however guarantee that nothing will change if nothing is done and it's continued to be allowed.

Edited by Adrenalized, 15 August 2018 - 3:52 PM.

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#1552 Wee Man

Wee Man

    Чистой ненависти номер один

Posted 15 August 2018 - 4:02 PM

I already pointed it out with you're lackluster reply to my first comment. I appreciate you taking the time to actually explain the reasoning behind you brushing off my comment now though that's all I ask. I will agree that the toxicity comes from the clan world but the moderators run the forum/section should be the one to lay down the rules. If rules are laid down and people know that toxicity/bait/flame banter won't be allowed and there's seriously consequences for these actions I think people would change. However if it's allowed to continue on the forums without anything being brought up then how can anyone expect change. I feel like when I first joined zybez all these fake winning topics aka bait topics were alot more controlled than they are now. Legit if you posted a topic like that before EOC chances are it would be locked fairly quickly. If there was actual work done to understand how these fights truly go from a moderator of the sections point of view then maybe they would be able to weed out these topics that are made solely to bait another clan into a flame war. Anyways I personally hope it does change I guess well see in the near future if anything is actually done. I can however guarantee that nothing will change if nothing is done and it's continued to be allowed.


It wasn't a lackluster reply, it's genuinely an answer. I disagreed with your notion that the staff themselves are a toxic entity. As for everything else we could of definitely hardlined against all forms of banter and shit talking between clans but you know where that'd leave us? An empty forum because nobody wants to discuss their fights with any kind of sincerity, they just want to make their rivals look stupid and themselves look good. That's really what it comes down to and in response to that we went down the route of trying to police people taking it too far with real life flaming and things like that and honestly a lot of people preferred that but at the same time there were people like you who didn't. That's the line we had to walk, it'll never be perfect for everyone. Zybez never had that kind of pull in the clan world while I've been around where we could influence how clans behaved, no matter what we put in place clans would still do their own thing their own way and our decision to be as neutral as possible and avoid trying to be the Runescape Clan Police was the best thing we could of done.
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#1553 Yoto32

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Posted 16 August 2018 - 9:59 AM

So, I've been part of the CD staff for over a decade. I've seen the shift in attitude that clanners have had with staff first hand. I am not here to put the blame on any one side, I'm just going to explain my personal view of what has happened over the years. I know as a staff member I've certainly inadvertently contributed to the deterioration of the relationship between the staff and the memberbase with some of my decisions. That's inevitable.

So, the most important part of this story is that all the work done here by the staff is volunteer work. Having to argue with someone who doesn't like you closed their thread is work. It's a headache. We do it because we're passionate about the clanning community and keeping zybez running. But it's grating. It wears you down. At some point, you just get tired of it. Obviously moderators should lead by example. I have always firmly believed that. We choose people who display maturity and we expect them to continue doing it. But we're all human. Sometimes we slip. One time I just shouted song lyrics at a guy who wouldn't stop badgering me on MSN. Keeping the CD staff running is a constant struggle between finding mature members who we can trust with moderating the board and keeping them. If we make the grind too easy, the clanning community will get upset at us for not being more involved. If we make the grind too hard, we'll chew up and spit out promising users faster than the memberbase can produce new ones. We all know how inbred the clan community is: for years the CD leadership has had trouble finding new, mature members to promote. And a lot of members that had great potential have disappeared due to inactivity. A lot of our more controversial decisions have been based on reducing the work load for our moderators.

 

Why has that work load increased over the years? Definitely a part of it is moderator decisions. If a moderator makes a bad call, the trust in that moderator decreases, and trust in the moderating team as a whole decreases as well. I know because I've made plenty of bad calls back in the day. But the biggest reason, I believe, is because making calls has become harder and harder over the years. Back when I started, the winner of a fight was obvious: they just stopped returning. But the clan world has evolved from that. Figuring out who won isn't so easy. You always had to operate with imperfect information, and sometimes a clan wouldn't cooperate in good faith. And even if you made the right call, the opposing side would argue with you regardless, because who's to say what a victory is anymore? I've always thought about how to fix that problem. Should we be less involved, should we be more, should we be an uninvolved, neutral host or should we actively try to shape the clan world to make it "better", whatever our version of better is. I know we did a lot right, but I'm sure we didn't get it perfect. But it hardly matters now.

 

I hid the latter half of the conversation because I don't want this thread to end on a sour note. With only a month left to go, there's no point in having this thread open. I want to thank everyone who ever posted on this thread or any iteration of it. Thank you for your passion for your clan. Thank you for your passion for improving CD. You are what made CD the powerhouse of the clanning community. I'm incredibly grateful for having the opportunity of being a part of it.

Goodbye, you beautiful bastards.


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