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#21 ♥ Peter ♥

♥ Peter ♥

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 10:46 AM

Members who openly lie in their posts, pretending to represent clans/teams they have no relation with, to make up problems for them, should be dealt with.


We obviously won't know every member in a clan so it is hard for us to tell if someone is actually in that clan or is pretending to be.
Once we see a person pretending to be in clan -x- we deal with it straight away. Of course any help is welcome (Report a post of the person, Forum PM a Mod).

it's kinda easy to tell lol

Ok it usually is and 99% of the times we pick them out but there's always that one person :-P
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#22 Stev3

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 02:33 PM

Members who openly lie in their posts, pretending to represent clans/teams they have no relation with, to make up problems for them, should be dealt with.


We obviously won't know every member in a clan so it is hard for us to tell if someone is actually in that clan or is pretending to be.
Once we see a person pretending to be in clan -x- we deal with it straight away. Of course any help is welcome (Report a post of the person, Forum PM a Mod).

it's kinda easy to tell lol

Ok it usually is and 99% of the times we pick them out but there's always that one person :-P

Yea, impersonating other clans members has been quite popular recently.
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#23 Fasty

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 06:51 PM

Members who openly lie in their posts, pretending to represent clans/teams they have no relation with, to make up problems for them, should be dealt with.


We obviously won't know every member in a clan so it is hard for us to tell if someone is actually in that clan or is pretending to be.
Once we see a person pretending to be in clan -x- we deal with it straight away. Of course any help is welcome (Report a post of the person, Forum PM a Mod).

it's kinda easy to tell lol

Ok it usually is and 99% of the times we pick them out but there's always that one person :-P

Yea, impersonating other clans members has been quite popular recently.

what? there are like 2 people on here who act like they're in different clans, if that.
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#24 Nick Numbers

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 06:53 PM

less rules in general no one likes the rules and it just encourages people to break them
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#25 HAR

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 03:43 AM

it's kinda easy to tell lol

Ok it usually is and 99% of the times we pick them out but there's always that one person :-P

Yea, impersonating other clans members has been quite popular recently.

I somewhat disagree with you EoMeri. Sure, sometimes it is easy to tell, but a good portion of the time, it can be exceedingly difficult - especially with name changes, poorly updated/non-public memberlists etc. It's unrealistic for staff to be expected to know which clan every individual in CD belongs to - but granted, if they are making a stream of trolls/stupid posts, it does raise our suspicion.
So as Peter said, if you see someone doing it, simply report them and they will be dealt with.



less rules in general no one likes the rules and it just encourages people to break them

Without trying to be too blunt here ... tough I'm afraid.
The rules are there for a reason and, comparatively to other sub sections (plus I can't remember the number of times I/others have said this), CD is by far the section with the most leniency. We also have to still uphold the board's global rules which aren't going to change any time soon just because you would like to be able to flame/bait/troll without any consequence.

If you want to post whatever you want, you'll have to go elsewhere because CD as a whole proves, on a daily basis in fact, that it can't be trusted to post responsibly with fewer rules/further leniency.

That isn't to say that we're not happy to review particular rules if there is genuine concern that it isn't the best solution (e.g. how fights/discussion topics are decided upon) and if you've got constructive suggestions on how we can build upon rules we've currently got, we're all ears.
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#26 Kenny

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 06:46 AM

Hey so I have a couple of views that might be beneficial or up for discussion:

I think it would be a good idea if a moderator was to delete someones post, they could perhaps PM the user that made the post why it was deleted. I know lots of people troll around & there are reasons why some posts get deleted but sometimes maybe a post might have been deleted or removed by mistake or the poster themselves is unaware of what they did wrong regarding the post.

If any clan was trying to crash the fight and was actually successful in doing so - why bother attempting to ddos the world?

Surely that would be the last resort if (plan A) supposedly 'crashing' worked?


I was just wondering what rule(s) did this post above break or why it was deleted? the post comes from this topic: http://forums.zybez....ed/page__st__20

I think further clarification to a poster should be a general rule of thumb (not just on CD but on all sub-forums) - so that posters are aware of rule(s) they might be breaking and can stop from making such post(s) in the future. This would potentially save moderators time in the long run of deleting post(s) by the same user.


Also I think there needs some further clarity on the rule(s) for Clan fights - I think some are outdated and possibly need re-evaluating:
  • If both parties in a given fight claim victory, a CL or CLs will determine whether or not one/both claims to victory are Reasonable. If both are found to be reasonable, a topic containing both views on the fight will be created with both topics merged in. If only one side is found to be reasonable, that side's topic will remain open, whilst their opponent's topic will be locked.
- I remember couple of months back topics use to get merged if both clans made claims to victory - however this hasn't happened recently. I see 2 clans both being able to post victory topics, neither topic is locked or merged so I was wondering what is going on with the above rule? Change the dynamics?

Example:

RoT's view of yesterday fight: http://forums.zybez....lution-ft-didf/

VR's view of yesterday's fight: http://forums.zybez....an-destroy-rot/

This is just a recent example, I could stretch this to later dates and add more examples but I think the above rule could use some reconfiguration.
  • If a clan regroups in single they forfeit topic rights.
- This has happened way to many times for this to be an actual rule? Clan(s) have been regrouping in single & claiming victory rights aswell as posting on RSC. This has been pointed out many times on certain fight topics that 'X' clan was in single but nothing has happened - the topic was never locked or closed and the clan(s) have been getting away with posting topics. Unless this rule is really going to be reinforced perhaps it is time to scrap it? Thoughts?
  • If the winners crashed any individual fight, planned or unplanned, they are not permitted to post the topic. However, if the initial crash resulted in a cluster fight, the initial crasher(s) may not post, whilst their team mates within the cluster may post.
- I actually have many views on this rule. From how I understand the reasoning but this rule was to discourage crashing altogether perhaps misguided.

The second part of this rule states that 'the initial crasher(s) may not post', is it not correct in saying that if only 1 clan is trying to crash other clan(s) the crashing clan theoretically can't post a topic seeing as they are solely working on their own and not teaming with anyone?

There are topics in which a clan that has crashed other clan(s); breaks 2 of the above rules mentioned but still gets away with posting topics on fight discussions. So I'm thinking some of these rules need to be changed or better reinforced.

Thoughts?

P.S - sorry for colouring restructure, thought it would be clearer to change the colour of rules set to red then got carried away and posted my response in orange

Edited by Kenny, 12 February 2015 - 06:48 AM.

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#27 Fasty

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 08:15 AM

I think it would be a good idea if a moderator was to delete someones post, they could perhaps PM the user that made the post why it was deleted. I know lots of people troll around & there are reasons why some posts get deleted but sometimes maybe a post might have been deleted or removed by mistake or the poster themselves is unaware of what they did wrong regarding the post.

If any clan was trying to crash the fight and was actually successful in doing so - why bother attempting to ddos the world?

Surely that would be the last resort if (plan A) supposedly 'crashing' worked?


I was just wondering what rule(s) did this post above break or why it was deleted? the post comes from this topic: http://forums.zybez....ed/page__st__20

the moderator probably realized it's the dumbest post he has ever seen in his life and got rid of it before too many of his brain cells died. the worlds have been ddosed constantly for the last few days, which is something that even jagex has commented on, and for you to use something as serious as that for propaganda is cringeworthy.

i think that accusing clans of committing felonies with absolutely no proof to back it up should actually result in a much worse punishment than having your post deleted. :thumbsup:
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#28 Kenny

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 08:26 AM

I think it would be a good idea if a moderator was to delete someones post, they could perhaps PM the user that made the post why it was deleted. I know lots of people troll around & there are reasons why some posts get deleted but sometimes maybe a post might have been deleted or removed by mistake or the poster themselves is unaware of what they did wrong regarding the post.

If any clan was trying to crash the fight and was actually successful in doing so - why bother attempting to ddos the world?

Surely that would be the last resort if (plan A) supposedly 'crashing' worked?


I was just wondering what rule(s) did this post above break or why it was deleted? the post comes from this topic: http://forums.zybez....ed/page__st__20

the moderator probably realized it's the dumbest post he has ever seen in his life and got rid of it before too many of his brain cells died. the worlds have been ddosed constantly for the last few days, which is something that even jagex has commented on, and for you to use something as serious as that for propaganda is cringeworthy.

i think that accusing clans of committing felonies with absolutely no proof to back it up should actually result in a much worse punishment than having your post deleted. :thumbsup:


You might be right regarding the fact other worlds have been (ddosed)/ or having server issues. To be fair I haven't really been playing the game outside events, (I actually plan on trying to try spending a bit more time on the game & not just logging on for fights :-P )

Although if your reasoning is correct for why the post was deleted than there should be a number of other post(s) that get deleted regarding accusing a certain clan of ddosing? So I'm not sure if that reasoning is correct.

Further clarification & perhaps a message as to way 'X' post gets deleted might be helpful anyway.
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#29 ZLAT

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 08:42 AM

Give your senior members an update and inform them about the rules of Clan Discussion - to avoid future embarrassments.
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#30 Fasty

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 08:53 AM

I think it would be a good idea if a moderator was to delete someones post, they could perhaps PM the user that made the post why it was deleted. I know lots of people troll around & there are reasons why some posts get deleted but sometimes maybe a post might have been deleted or removed by mistake or the poster themselves is unaware of what they did wrong regarding the post.

If any clan was trying to crash the fight and was actually successful in doing so - why bother attempting to ddos the world?

Surely that would be the last resort if (plan A) supposedly 'crashing' worked?


I was just wondering what rule(s) did this post above break or why it was deleted? the post comes from this topic: http://forums.zybez....ed/page__st__20

the moderator probably realized it's the dumbest post he has ever seen in his life and got rid of it before too many of his brain cells died. the worlds have been ddosed constantly for the last few days, which is something that even jagex has commented on, and for you to use something as serious as that for propaganda is cringeworthy.

i think that accusing clans of committing felonies with absolutely no proof to back it up should actually result in a much worse punishment than having your post deleted. :thumbsup:


You might be right regarding the fact other worlds have been (ddosed)/ or having server issues. To be fair I haven't really been playing the game outside events, (I actually plan on trying to try spending a bit more time on the game & not just logging on for fights :-P )

Although if your reasoning is correct for why the post was deleted than there should be a number of other post(s) that get deleted regarding accusing a certain clan of ddosing? So I'm not sure if that reasoning is correct.

Further clarification & perhaps a message as to way 'X' post gets deleted might be helpful anyway.

probably because those posts don't refer to ddosing worlds, they refer to ddosing specific clan world members & teamspeaks. it's common knowledge that it wasn't a clan ddosing the worlds since people cry about it 24/7 everywhere & people who don't even play this game have taken credit for it before (don't play dumb, just own up to your poor attempt at propaganda). on the other hand, it's obvious that it must be a clan ddosing certain people/teamspeaks, which is why those accusations are at least somewhat relevant to this forum.

for the mods:

a certain senior member told me that you aren't allowed to post a topic if you crashed an anti-crash or something. is this true?
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#31 iX Shadow Xi

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 09:09 AM

◦If the winners crashed any individual fight, planned or unplanned, they are not permitted to post the topic.

http://forums.zybez....e-incorporated/

I'm not sure why but for some strange reason DF stopped their fight with DI and came to crash ours, in the following video you can hear Jaybird telling us to "tank DF away." The person recording was wearing a DF cape allowing them to clearly be seen @ 2:50 killing one of our members.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbxAFK06188

Edited by iX Shadow Xi, 12 February 2015 - 09:14 AM.

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#32 Kevin.

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 09:09 AM

Regarding PMing users when they're posts get deleted. There's far too many posts that get deleted per day for us to do that. There's instances when we delete 20 or more posts from a topic (because they quoted the post that started it all that broke the rules for instance) and more. It would not be feasible for us to PM every single one. I know on other boards they do that because they don't have the shear volume of activity we get, even when it's less than before.

Your post was deleted because it was unsubstantiated claims out of nowhere, which will lead to nothing but flaming (flamebaits, etc) which will derail the topic.

In regards to that topic: every fight topic is discussed by the CD staff before any action is taken, so if you see two topics up it doesn't mean there's no action taken against them it's just being discussed. Well, I shouldn't say all topics. Most topics are. If a topic should obviously be locked with no contest possible, then they would be closed right away.

"If a clan regroups in single they forfeit topic rights" - you're right; many clans have done this, however often times both clans have done it so we weigh it among a variety of other factors to determine which clan gets the topic rights. For example: if both clans ran to single but the other clan had sufficient proof that they won (eg. more ending ops in a matched fight or opponent leaving the world/ending), then you can see where the balances would shift. Think of them as guidelines as well as rules. Decisions are made often on moderator judgement, not a strict interpretation of the rules. If we enforced the rules to a t we would have a hell of lot more banned users.

Regarding the crashing rule, let me explain how this works: Clan A crashes a fight between Clan B and Clan C. Let's say Clan A crashes their fight, they can't post a topic. However, if Clan A fights Clan D (who is ACing Clan B and C's fight), then it's acceptable since they're fighting the anticrash and not crashing the fight. Let's say if it becomes a cluster because Clan A just fights everyone and thus crashing the fight (Clan B+C+D vs. Clan A), then Clan A can't post a topic about the cluster because they crashed the fight. Really this balances allowing clusters to happen while at the same time minimizing the effect of crashing on here. This also allows two fights to happen on the same world, which happens regularly.

Anyway, overall, the topics ended up being merged because it was unclear on who the direct winner was. The world being taken down contributed to most of it.

Just as a side note, not every decision made it perfect, and it never will be. There will be those who are happy with it and those who are unhappy with it. It's the way it works. Both sides are passionate for what they believe happened in the fight because they were there and personally experienced, albeit at the point of view of themselves only. This also applies to other areas such as post removals. We don't see everything and we're not an all knowing system which works mechanically. Some moderators may look at a post and feel it's worth a deletion versus a suspension, while other moderators will feel the opposite. It works the same way in real life with any person in authoritative positions. I personally err to the side of leniency, but that can only go so far.

◦If the winners crashed any individual fight, planned or unplanned, they are not permitted to post the topic.

http://forums.zybez....e-incorporated/

I'm not sure why but for some strange reason DF stopped their fight with DI and came to crash ours, in the following video you can hear Jaybird telling us to "tank DF away" and the person recording was wearing a DF cape allowing them to clearly be seen @ 2:50 killing one of our members.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbxAFK06188


If a single person attacking someone is considered crashing a fight, then I'm sure every clan is crashing everyone at some point in time. If that's what you're referring to.
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#33 iX Shadow Xi

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 09:36 AM

◦If the winners crashed any individual fight, planned or unplanned, they are not permitted to post the topic.

http://forums.zybez....e-incorporated/

I'm not sure why but for some strange reason DF stopped their fight with DI and came to crash ours, in the following video you can hear Jaybird telling us to "tank DF away" and the person recording was wearing a DF cape allowing them to clearly be seen @ 2:50 killing one of our members.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbxAFK06188


If a single person attacking someone is considered crashing a fight, then I'm sure every clan is crashing everyone at some point in time. If that's what you're referring to.


I'm referring to DF piling and killing our members as a clan while we're fighting VR, we were instructed to tank them away (as can be heard on the video) and only one person ended up not listening thus bringing DF into the video, otherwise I would have more examples.

This picture may help to better show said incident.

Posted Image

Edited by iX Shadow Xi, 12 February 2015 - 09:41 AM.

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#34 Kevin.

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 09:50 AM

Alright, thank you for clarifying. Again a variety of things could have happened. For example, a single RoT member could have walked next to their pile and started attacking them, causing them to pile them for example (it's happened before when I was both in SE and DF where a member would randomly wander off and attack someone). Or, they could have done as you suggested and helped VR clear. In regards to the second point, were they aware that they were attacking a RoT member? I remember clanning back when RuneHead lists were up to date and we could look someone up in seconds, but with name changes anyone could be anyone. My point being it isn't clear cut evidence that they were crashing your fight. If two fights happen in the same world clashes are bound to happen especially if they don't know who is who (see previous point).

Anyway, if you look at it from that standpoint, it actually argues against your point in keeping your topic open since it can be argued that you were the initial crashers in that cluster. From my standpoint, it was two separate fights happening with no clear winners since the world went down.
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#35 iX Shadow Xi

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 10:19 AM

Alright, thank you for clarifying. Again a variety of things could have happened. For example, a single RoT member could have walked next to their pile and started attacking them, causing them to pile them for example (it's happened before when I was both in SE and DF where a member would randomly wander off and attack someone). Or, they could have done as you suggested and helped VR clear. In regards to the second point, were they aware that they were attacking a RoT member? I remember clanning back when RuneHead lists were up to date and we could look someone up in seconds, but with name changes anyone could be anyone. My point being it isn't clear cut evidence that they were crashing your fight. If two fights happen in the same world clashes are bound to happen especially if they don't know who is who (see previous point).

Anyway, if you look at it from that standpoint, it actually argues against your point in keeping your topic open since it can be argued that you were the initial crashers in that cluster. From my standpoint, it was two separate fights happening with no clear winners since the world went down.


They were well aware they were attacking a RoT member, DF and DI stopped there fight as soon as we clashed with VR and DF traveled pretty far south to aid them. Feel free to watch the video and listen to our team speak in order to get a more clear understanding of what happened. [Video]

I'm not sure how it argues against keeping our topic open as you said yourself.

Regarding the crashing rule, let me explain how this works: Clan A crashes a fight between Clan B and Clan C. Let's say Clan A crashes their fight, they can't post a topic. However, if Clan A fights Clan D (who is ACing Clan B and C's fight), then it's acceptable since they're fighting the anticrash and not crashing the fight.


I'd also like to point that the wording on DF's topic correlates with this.

DI always give us challenges so we setup a fight versus them. It was an hour cap as it's just a midweek scrap and we made sure to hype it up knowing we'd get a clean 1v1. VR attended and made sure the fight stayed clean from outside forces.


Edited by iX Shadow Xi, 12 February 2015 - 11:18 AM.

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#36 Ross

Ross

Posted 12 February 2015 - 11:01 AM

Not really sure what your trying to pull here Shadow but the mods arnt that silly.
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#37 Kevin.

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 11:01 AM

They fought DI while you fought VR. What's the controversy here?
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#38 iX Shadow Xi

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    Member

Posted 12 February 2015 - 11:26 AM

They fought DI while you fought VR. What's the controversy here?


That fight stopped as soon as we clashed with VR they walked from within the normal bounds to dwarfs to crash us.

Not really sure what your trying to pull here Shadow but the mods arnt that silly.


[18:25] @Kev|: 001612:002712:002612] [00Kev|12] True_2k8
[18:25] @Kev|: 0012[001612:002712:002812] [00Kev|12] we need u to hit rot
[18:25] @Kev|: 0012[001612:002712:003012] [00Kev|12] srs
[18:25] @Kev|: 12[001612:002712:004312] [00True_2k812] k coming

Edited by iX Shadow Xi, 12 February 2015 - 11:26 AM.

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#39 Danne

Danne

    Member

Posted 12 February 2015 - 11:30 AM

  • Note: You must provide two kinds of pictures: one of the actual fight and one of your clan's starting or ending options.
http://forums.zybez.net/topic/1659251-11th-february-reign-of-terror-vs-violent-resolution/

VR's version has no picture of their starting or ending options, thus rendering their PoV null. Please fix this error.
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#40 Ross

Ross

Posted 12 February 2015 - 11:50 AM

They fought DI while you fought VR. What's the controversy here?


That fight stopped as soon as we clashed with VR they walked from within the normal bounds to dwarfs to crash us.

Not really sure what your trying to pull here Shadow but the mods arnt that silly.


[18:25] @Kev|: 001612:002712:002612] [00Kev|12] True_2k8
[18:25] @Kev|: 0012[001612:002712:002812] [00Kev|12] we need u to hit rot
[18:25] @Kev|: 0012[001612:002712:003012] [00Kev|12] srs
[18:25] @Kev|: 12[001612:002712:004312] [00True_2k812] k coming


Dont you think that time frame is a little off.
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