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The Ideal Vs Reality


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#1 Tiger R4nged

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 02:19 PM

I've lurked around these forums for quite some time, even after I quit. Runescape has always fascinated me, especially the longevity of the clan world. When I played, I played mainly as a pure, I had a few mains here and there, but not at the level that competes in long, grueling wilderness fights like you all.

In the golden days.

But with this unprecedented move by Jagex, they will return. Or so we think.

Remember when the wild came back to us? Something we begged and cried for yet turned out to be our worst nightmare due to all of the new abilities and weapons that now were able to enter our "ideal" battleground.

Today, we have EOC, a rather lackluster, twisted version of what Runescape combat always wanted to be, but failed hard to emulate.

But now, we have 2007 servers. Untouched, fully stocked with only the abilities, weapons, graphical updates that existed during then. A memory that we have a chance to relive.

In that memory, it was PvP that drove RuneScape to its popularity, not PvM like today's Runescape. But sadly PvP had to be sacrificed so RuneScape would go on (wilderness taken away to stop gold farming and stolen credit card use). Copycat versions of the wilderness tried to take it's place (Bounty Hunter, the Crucible, PvP worlds).

And for a time, in their own right, they did. But none had the appeal that the wilderness had, the era that 2007 had.

So here we have it, coming down to this: 2007 Scape vs post-EOC RS, or better yet, PvP vs PvM. Which one will win?

When PvP was the focus of RS, or had a greater impact (wilderness), we saw constant 100k+ people online during weekends. In today's PvM driven RS, we are lucky to see 100k being broken.

I think RuneScape was so great to us back then is because the unexpectedness of a foe that we would face. In PvP, we didn't know what our opponent brought to a fight. We could only control what we had in our inventory, what levels our skills were, and hopefully a quick prayer that our connections wouldn't lag out in DM. In PvM, you know what styles your foe will use, and you can counter effectively, nowadays if you have the geepee, it wouldn't be a problem to worry about.

There is a huge potential for what will come once these servers come back. This is our chance to compare to versions of RuneScape and see what is truly better. People will argue that nostalgia holds one back, and while that is true, in this case, it may be the best way forward for RS and it's developers.

Like many have said, you have nothing to lose by voting. I'm not here to espouse either position, because there is a great chance that our "ideal" version of RS will be perverted by our view of the current version. Our expectations may be too high for this retro-version, people think that they know EXACTLY what there getting when they really don't.

Players will have to start from scratch.
An economy will be non-existent.
Only the die-hard players will persevere in this brave, new world.
New players may not fully appreciate the simplistic RS if a free version is to be had (assume that 750k votes will be obtained).

And the biggest fear of all, maybe this retro, heralded version of RS isn't all so great as we thought it would be.

And there's a great chance that this simplistic, bold '07 RS could be the key to Jagex's growth as a company. They now have the opportunity to house both RS and let their consumer decide on the choice of their product (if 750k votes is reached obviously).

The Old vs The New

And what about the clan community? A community that has persevered like no other (then again this is really the only MMORPG that I've ever played, but you can see why :D). You guys are so dedicated to your clans because they have bred most of your memories on RS.

Those memories, as well as others from skilling and PvM back then, are what is driving this poll today.

If Jagex would learn to tap into what and why the clan community can sustain such longevity, couldn't they learn to apply that on a model for all RuneScape players to be swallowed into, so then their membership subscriptions would not decline?

If you could get 9-15 year old's to have such dedication to a game because of a clan or another aspect of a game, couldn't you do it again, but with even more fervor as you have seen the untapped might of having a strong community in general (this applies not only to the clan scene, but to all communities centered around an aspect of RS)?

Players of RS now have a chance to explore what it was like back then. There are now many firsts to be accomplished on this server. The first to this skill, The first to x amount of money. The first clan. Just like when RS started (I wasn't there but I find it reasonable to assume the following premise): There were many firsts to be had, many lands to explore. The unknown to be conquered.

This venture by Jagex really shows that RuneScape is about and what it has always been about: the game should have always been PvP because that's what drives people to come back. The interaction, whether it be staking for phats, luring someone for bank, DMing in single edge, fangirling over Elvemage videos (ok ok, this one just might be me, but he's the reason why I created a pure), having a conversation chopping down mages south of Camelot, alching at w132 fletching guild, and many more memories.

Or it could turn out like the wilderness return, something we wanted and cherished, but was ultimately a shell of what the wilderness had been.

I hope I've stayed fair and neutral (ok not really, I want to play 2007 servers very badly haha), but I've only touched the tip of the iceberg, the surface of the lake if you will with this intro into a discussion.

Originally, I planned to have a bunch of questions to ask you guys about what I've said. But there's really only one question.

What makes RuneScape back then so great that it merits a revival?

If you can approach that question with a balanced view, I think people actually start to prepare for 2007's return, and meet it with ideals in our eyes and reality in our mind.

Edited by Tiger R4nged, 16 February 2013 - 02:27 PM.

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#2 Skillzy

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 02:21 PM

Waddup boy :)

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#3 Tiger R4nged

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 02:24 PM

hey there sexy, how are you doing? it's been a while, life has been treating me rather well though

i miss our days in Fatality.
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#4 Skillzy

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 02:32 PM

View PostTiger R4nged, on 16 February 2013 - 02:24 PM, said:

hey there sexy, how are you doing? it's been a while, life has been treating me rather well though

i miss our days in Fatality.
I'm busy busy busy with school :). I'm glad you're doing well!

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Retired 2011.

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#5 Tiger R4nged

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 02:59 PM

View PostSkillzy, on 16 February 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

View PostTiger R4nged, on 16 February 2013 - 02:24 PM, said:

hey there sexy, how are you doing? it's been a while, life has been treating me rather well though

i miss our days in Fatality.
I'm busy busy busy with school :). I'm glad you're doing well!

thanks! I'm going to be like you soon, finishing up last semester of school here, then off to college! it sounds like you're doing well too.

does fatality still have a site?
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#6 Rashy

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 03:14 PM

Ahem. Way to ruin your own topic with personal discussion. Take that to PM.

RuneScape was fun for me because of the friends who played along with me. I didn't care much for PvP (RS's PvP was stale even back then) or PvM. I simply enjoyed skilling with a group of friends, chatting about random topics to pass the time. I remember spending endless months in the fishing guild with a group of regulars. It took my mind off the monotony of skilling.

All of those friends have quit now. Whether or not they'll return or are aware of the 07 servers being brought back, I don't know. I'm only still in touch with a couple of them.

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#7 Tiger R4nged

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 03:19 PM

View PostRashy, on 16 February 2013 - 03:14 PM, said:

Ahem. Way to ruin your own topic with personal discussion. Take that to PM.

RuneScape was fun for me because of the friends who played along with me. I didn't care much for PvP (RS's PvP was stale even back then) or PvM. I simply enjoyed skilling with a group of friends, chatting about random topics to pass the time. I remember spending endless months in the fishing guild with a group of regulars. It took my mind off the monotony of skilling.

All of those friends have quit now. Whether or not they'll return or are aware of the 07 servers being brought back, I don't know. I'm only still in touch with a couple of them.

sorry, first time I've used these forums in a while, forgive me
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#8 rob 92

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 04:28 PM

I think it's great for numerous reasons.

Firstly is the graphics. I know they apparently 'improved' or became modernised or whatever but in reality after 2008(?) they became horrible. Animations look wrong as do a ton of other things, ahrims in 2007 looks cool as hell, after the update it was embarrassing to wear.

Secondly is the lack of summoning in the wild. It completely raped pking, people were bringing 40 brews to Mage bank in a pak yak, it was ridiculous.

Then we have the weapons that killed pking. D claws, godswords, Korasi and other weapons with an I win spec were straight up dumb and just made pking frustrating.

There's a lot more (eg prayers should never have expanded past piety, arguably even just smite) but these are the main things for me, for a pker runescape kinda became unplayable 2008+

I think a major part where Jagex went wrong was releasing PvM dropped items that effected PvP so badly. They had it right with barrows since none of the drops killed Pking, I'm all for godwars, tormented demons and other things that PvMers enjoy but the drops shouldn't be ones that kill Pking, they should drop items that help with training (eg guthans), further boss killing or skilling.

Edited by rob 92, 16 February 2013 - 04:32 PM.

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#9 Squiggoth

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 07:27 PM

View Postrob 92, on 16 February 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

I think a major part where Jagex went wrong was releasing PvM dropped items that effected PvP so badly. They had it right with barrows since none of the drops killed Pking, I'm all for godwars, tormented demons and other things that PvMers enjoy but the drops shouldn't be ones that kill Pking, they should drop items that help with training (eg guthans), further boss killing or skilling.

Maybe not say they effected it so badly, but you can't stop someone from using something just because you think it's overpowered. You just have to adapt as with any change.

To the OP, Runescape never was based on PVP, why do you think with all the quests, skills, and a multitude of things that involved not fighting other players? Runescape was much more PVM centered than PVP, but PVP did have a vibrant side to it. It just wasn't the main focus.

#10 rob 92

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 07:57 PM

View PostSquiggoth, on 16 February 2013 - 07:27 PM, said:

View Postrob 92, on 16 February 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

I think a major part where Jagex went wrong was releasing PvM dropped items that effected PvP so badly. They had it right with barrows since none of the drops killed Pking, I'm all for godwars, tormented demons and other things that PvMers enjoy but the drops shouldn't be ones that kill Pking, they should drop items that help with training (eg guthans), further boss killing or skilling.

Maybe not say they effected it so badly, but you can't stop someone from using something just because you think it's overpowered. You just have to adapt as with any change.

To the OP, Runescape never was based on PVP, why do you think with all the quests, skills, and a multitude of things that involved not fighting other players? Runescape was much more PVM centered than PVP, but PVP did have a vibrant side to it. It just wasn't the main focus.

I did adapt, I never used to die to that crap really, it was just boring having them in the game and those weapons epitomise the downfall of runescape.

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#11 Tiger R4nged

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 10:22 AM

View PostSquiggoth, on 16 February 2013 - 07:27 PM, said:

View Postrob 92, on 16 February 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

I think a major part where Jagex went wrong was releasing PvM dropped items that effected PvP so badly. They had it right with barrows since none of the drops killed Pking, I'm all for godwars, tormented demons and other things that PvMers enjoy but the drops shouldn't be ones that kill Pking, they should drop items that help with training (eg guthans), further boss killing or skilling.

Maybe not say they effected it so badly, but you can't stop someone from using something just because you think it's overpowered. You just have to adapt as with any change.

To the OP, Runescape never was based on PVP, why do you think with all the quests, skills, and a multitude of things that involved not fighting other players? Runescape was much more PVM centered than PVP, but PVP did have a vibrant side to it. It just wasn't the main focus.

I'm not saying RS was based on PvP. I'm saying that RS was definitely driven more by PvP (brought more interaction between players themselves), than PvM (had a greater chance of isolating players than PvP).

That;s why I added skilling and other minigames to not appear so one-sided in my discussion, you're right, that has to be acknowledged.
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#12 Jimb0b

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 08:15 PM

I think the thought of a 2006 or 2007 server is a terrible idea. The game would be so different without Chaotics and even Drygore weaponry. I just see no success, what about your items/stats? Clans? People? I don't see much reason to play a 2007 server because I like the current game now.

The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge. - Stephen Hawking


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#13 rob 92

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 08:38 PM

View PostJimb0b, on 17 February 2013 - 08:15 PM, said:

I think the thought of a 2006 or 2007 server is a terrible idea. The game would be so different without Chaotics and even Drygore weaponry. I just see no success, what about your items/stats? Clans? People? I don't see much reason to play a 2007 server because I like the current game now.

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