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Runescape: Old And New


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#1 Murdoc

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:03 PM

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Just a few minutes back someone in Zchat mentioned that Mod Mark had posted a public response to the petitions and whatnot that have been going around recenty about bringing back the old combat system and etc., so considering it isn't featured on the homepage thought I might as well share on here (since a lot of you are really passionate about this lol):

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Over the last few months, we’ve been more active than ever on our own forums, Twitter Facebook, , YouTube, Reddit, and all the fan sites, reading your thoughts regarding our recent posts and updates. I’m thrilled to see so many people talking about what first made - and still makes -RuneScape special. It’s clear that many feel passionately about older aspects of the game; we're certainly listening to everything you're saying.

There are many suggestions, including some radical new ideas. These range greatly in scope: there have been requests for new versions of the game where everyone starts from scratch; servers that run the old combat system; complete single-player versions of the game with the option to pick and choose updates; and a return to RuneScape as it was in 2006. Some of you have asked for servers with more specific special conditions: no Grand Exchange; higher risk or old wildy; old Bounty Hunter; permadeath; old magic shortbow specs; old 2h melee dominance...everything up to “bring back the old three-hit-pk-anywhere system from Classic days," if you remember back that far!

In particular, there are many ideas focused around your love of the old combat system and all its even-earlier incarnations, and your level of passion and interest speaks volumes. Huge thanks for taking the time and effort to tell us how you feel.

It’s been a fascinating read, and everyone has their own opinion on what was good, bad, ugly or epic about older versions of the game. Right now, we’re looking into all of your comments, suggestions and ideas: specifically about combat, both old and new. Were committed to making this year something special, and we really want look into those ideas that you feel most strongly about.

Researching and exploring these ideas take time. With all the other great content we have planned this year, what we can promise right now is to look into these things with all the energy and enthusiasm we have. Expect more information about this on the 20th of February during our next Q&A session: Around the Campfire with..._

Don’t forget that we are always working on improvements to the core game. We are still refining the EoC based on your feedback and aiming for at least one significant batch of improvements a month. I know it’s frustrating for some of you that we still need to tweak it, but we want to make it as great as we believe it can be by working with you. If you’d like more info on the changes and updates we're making in February, watch out for an Og Blog and February's Behind the Scenes article, both of which are coming soon.

Thanks for reading. If you want to reply here with your own ideas or thoughts regarding this subject, please do so. We plan to keep this thread open for 24 hours and I’ll be posting replies to your comments whenever I can. After that, we can get back into the research work mentioned above. If you’ve posted elsewhere, we will find it and give it the full attention it deserves.

Thanks for reading,

Mod Mark

Design Director – RuneScape
Source: http://services.rune...15,503,64217453

Given all the stuff Jagex said with the EoC's release concerning "looking to the future" and whatnot to bring in new players, do you seriously think they might actually 'give in' now and release such game modes? Can't remember the other person who I was talking to about this subject a few days back - but he/she mentioned how Jagex might as well go down this path to save themselves the time, money (indeed even make a fair bit at the end of the day), and trouble of having to shut down the plethora of individual private servers out there who're aready siphoning away at the playerbase. 'Official' servers in this regard could work out for everyone.

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#2 The Exe

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:11 PM

Doubt they would use any of the ideas the community has submitted, After all this is Jagex.
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#3 Elder Jr

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:11 PM

Really hope they do this, i would love to see Old school servers from Runescape, we have had Classic servers so why not a Old school one?

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#4 Black

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:20 PM

Well then, this shall be interdasting to follow.
Edit: please don't make us restart off with lvl 1 everything!

Edited by Blackenese, 01 February 2013 - 02:40 PM.

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#5 Murdoc

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:22 PM

View PostElder Jr, on 01 February 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

Really hope they do this, i would love to see Old school servers from Runescape, we have had Classic servers so why not a Old school one?
Yeah this is what I have never understood. They're happy to keep those around but won't hear anything about any for pre-2006 RS? Those woud be far, far, far, more active. Just set aside like 10 or something.

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“People are continually pointing out to me the wretchedness of white people in order to console me for the wretchedness of blacks. But an itemized account of the American failure does not console me and it should not console anyone else. That hundreds of thousands of white people are living, in effect, no better than the "African Americans" is not a fact to be regarded with complacency. The social and moral bankruptcy suggested by this fact is of the bitterest, most terrifying kind.”


#6 Milktea4me

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:23 PM

If they ever do make operate servers, the fan base for Runescape will take a huge toll. I'm all for old servers, but the consequences seem way too drastic for Jagex to make that move.

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#7 Murdoc

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:35 PM

View PostMilktea4me, on 01 February 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

If they ever do make operate servers, the fan base for Runescape will take a huge toll. I'm all for old servers, but the consequences seem way too drastic for Jagex to make that move.
How...? The point, if anything, is to bring back people who have quit over updates like the EoC.

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“People are continually pointing out to me the wretchedness of white people in order to console me for the wretchedness of blacks. But an itemized account of the American failure does not console me and it should not console anyone else. That hundreds of thousands of white people are living, in effect, no better than the "African Americans" is not a fact to be regarded with complacency. The social and moral bankruptcy suggested by this fact is of the bitterest, most terrifying kind.”


#8 Bow

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:37 PM

I'm on board for Jagex to be listening to people in a better fashion than what they have done historically, so this is a fairly good start if they are genuinely listening more now.  If Jagex does feel the desire to continue forward with a project like this I can't help but reiterate to them that they make sure they listen and ask for the details that people are wanting for it.  I think it would only be a greater detriment to their business if they brought it back for what they wanted and once again disregarded input that is given by the people that play their game.

I hope they don't expect people to pay the same membership costs for an older version of the game that isn't wanted to be changed as as they do for their current live one.  It isn't as if it would be updated frequently or anything that has updates on a continuous basis.
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#9 Magick

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:42 PM

I do not even see how this would work, going backwards seems so impractical. Then again, it is JaGEx -- they seem silly enough to pull something like this. The fact that they are even considering this just shows the dire state of the game.

Edited by Magick, 01 February 2013 - 02:43 PM.

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#10 ToeJam

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:44 PM

I just find it all highly entertaining to be honest. In the clip in the spoiler @ around 14min Mod MMG and Mod Mark clearly stated with a 'NO' to old servers being incorporated like classic... that they were interested in the future and new content... no interest in nostalgia

Spoiler

Some months down the line with the EOC well in effect they are suddenly 'listening' to their player base... it just makes me laugh with cynicism - "lets chuck a whole new system at our players.... it's what they'll want" leading to "hmmm... we're losing revenue... lets go on forums and see what's what... Oooooooooh!"

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#11 spoonheb

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:35 PM

So they'll create servers suited to players interests and disinterests, just like private servers?
Making everyone's current experience and valuables worthless?
At the same time as splitting the community into fractions of what it currently is?

Good idea.

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#12 Evi

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:36 PM

I would play it if I keep my levels. I don't see myself starting at 1 though.

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#13 Robinhoodrs

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:42 PM

Keep our current levels and reset our banks to nothing. Everyone I've talked to on the matter agree's with this idea and wants the servers pre-2006. Hopefully they do something about this, hopefully a poll on the main page for everyone to vote and a forum to voice suggestions on the matter.

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#14 iMagiaErebea

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 05:16 PM

I agree with that, Robin. I think the optimal solution, albeit wishful thinking, would be to make it a custom server based on '06. Personally, I liked construction and a few other post '06 additions, but it'd be far more tedious to do this than I bet Jagex would be willing to do. Also depends on the graphics too. And ya, wouldn't play from start at 1x xp.

Edited by iMagiaErebea, 01 February 2013 - 05:16 PM.


#15 Murdoc

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 05:22 PM

View Postspoonheb, on 01 February 2013 - 03:35 PM, said:

So they'll create servers suited to players interests and disinterests, just like private servers?
Making everyone's current experience and valuables worthless?
At the same time as splitting the community into fractions of what it currently is?

Good idea.
I don't understand, are you playing for your own enjoyment or as part of some kind of obligation to serve a greater purpose? 'Official private servers' would make your 99s, cash stack, hoarded items, and so on just as 'worthless' as the next (big) update which innocently offers increased xp rates et al - in the sense of "no it doesn't you're just imagining things." Who cares how other people toggle their skill levels or train them (and even think you trained them)? You should be happy with how you've gone about perfecting your own account and busy enjoying the memories associated with that journey. Indeed the fact that you now stand out from the newer generations for having done things "back in the day when we didn't get crushed under xp handouts" should be a part of that pride.  

As for the talk of communities - I don't really care about the prospect of people branching off into their own little enclaves. It's not like people have mixed a great deal as things stand right now. PK'ing, clanning, PvM'ing, and skilling have always come across to me as being distinct and keeping to themselves for the large part. Just look at the divide on RSC itself between the various sections. :lol: If they want to use this as an opportunity to properly establish their own detached little worlds then it's their choice to make. It's obvious that the PvP groups in particular need that kind of freedom - look how badly they've been hit by updates geared towards the others over the past few years.

Like I said before Jagex are a business first. If they feel that the EoC hasn't exactly worked out as intended, and the new content planned for this year similarly fails to recapture that spark, why wouldn't they take a closer look at this prospect?

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#16 ToeJam

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 05:41 PM

View PostMurdoc, on 01 February 2013 - 05:22 PM, said:

As for the talk of communities - I don't really care about the prospect of people branching off into their own little enclaves. It's not like people have mixed a great deal as things stand right now. PK'ing, clanning, PvM'ing, and skilling have always come across to me as being distinct and keeping to themselves for the large part. Just look at the divide on RSC itself between the various sections. :lol: If they want to use this as an opportunity to properly establish their own detached little worlds then it's their choice to make. It's obvious that the PvP groups in particular need that kind of freedom - look how badly they've been hit by updates geared towards the others over the past few years.  

That is actually a well laid out argument! I just don't know if Jagex are being serious or really thinking it through. They effectively killed off pking/warring clans over the last few years... the community which was once a respectful force back in the day that fed off of the skillers market for supplies and reciprocated with spoils has become a very small minority group due to Jagex focusing heavily on the pvm and skilling community.

We yelled and sputtered but in essence we were drowned out by the growing numbers of the those two growing groups due to the change in dynamics (through updates) and left to try and manage and sustain our fun on our own.

Admittedly we've been lucky having some very focal and high profile players arguing our side and keeping at least a toe in the door (i.e. His Lordship from WG... much to the bemusement of the rest of the clan world who (with no intentional insult to HL on my part), have maintained successful and active clans whilst his has held historic significance but diminished in actual clan world relevance)... the sad fact of the matter is that this is probably attention to a problem that has come too late.

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#17 spoonheb

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 05:47 PM

View PostMurdoc, on 01 February 2013 - 05:22 PM, said:

View Postspoonheb, on 01 February 2013 - 03:35 PM, said:

So they'll create servers suited to players interests and disinterests, just like private servers?
Making everyone's current experience and valuables worthless?
At the same time as splitting the community into fractions of what it currently is?

Good idea.
I don't understand, are you playing for your own enjoyment or as part of some kind of obligation to serve a greater purpose? Who cares how other people toggle their skill levels or train them (and even think you trained them)? You should be happy with how you've gone about perfecting your own account and busy enjoying the memories associated with that journey.

Like I said before Jagex are a business first. If they feel that the EoC hasn't exactly worked out as intended, and the new content planned for this year similarly fails to recapture that spark, why wouldn't they take a closer look at this prospect?

I play for the same reason I believe a lot of people do, firstly an escape into a different world which is not dictated by popular demand. Also for the sense of accomplishment you get from achieving a new level, or a new piece of armour.
Private servers heavily rely on the catering to the users, making certain aspects easier and diminishing them while making other aspects more affluent. Many servers offer free items, and quick or free XP to go PK'ing with. (This is what a lot of the people would like aside from the XP part.)

But if we just started handing out accomplishments what does that do to one's pride who got the same stats and gear, except it took them hundreds of hours of work. Those accomplishments fade into the background, shortly before being completely forgotten by the community, effectively craptering that persons sense of accomplishment because now anyone can come along and achieve the same thing in a much smaller amount of time.

I will give an example, Pheonix Odin was the first to get 200M runecrafting XP, he did it through ZMI before runespan existed. I believe he was the only one with 200M RC Xp before runespan, now there are 43 people with 200M Xp. It is still quite the accomplishment, but how do you think Phoenix Odin felt when Runespan was released? A little cheated? That's fair enough, the skill needed an update.
Now what if we apply that concept to every skill and multiply it by 10. A 200M skill seems completely pointless, because anyone can do it. It is no longer a question of persistence or patience, it's a question of if someone simply feels the urge to do it.
Maybe that's a little too specific, if Jagex gives people exactly what they want, free roam of money and Xp, they are basically giving away accounts and gold. If you thought people were upset they were selling gold, just wait until you see the reaction from this.

I agree Jagex is a business, I often make points on why it is silly for a business to do such a large scale free-for-all type update. Runescape has always been about building up your account, levels, and wealth. Now take that away from it, Runescape is just another PvP game that people will play, enjoy for awhile, realize there is no end to it, nor any specific reason to compete with others, and move onto whatever comes out next that is also neat.

The point here is that if people are not required to achieve things, what stops them from playing any other grab-and-go game?

OT: Let's be honest and realistic, clanning and PK'ing was dying well before EoC. It is not entirely EoC's fault that they stopped altogether.

Edited by spoonheb, 01 February 2013 - 05:47 PM.

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#18 Focus Singed

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 06:15 PM

View Postspoonheb, on 01 February 2013 - 05:47 PM, said:

OT: Let's be honest and realistic, clanning and PK'ing was dying well before EoC. It is not entirely EoC's fault that they stopped altogether.

You're correct, clanning and PK'ing was dying well before EoC, but only due to very poor updates from Jagex in 2007 which in turn led to the community changing for the worst.

The pking and clanning community would still be thriving if it wasn't for those updates, EoC was just the final nail in the coffin.

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#19 Murdoc

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 07:46 PM

View Postspoonheb, on 01 February 2013 - 05:47 PM, said:

Don't really know what to do other than copy-paste my post again, but here goes.

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Maybe that's a little too specific, if Jagex gives people exactly what they want, free roam of money and Xp, they are basically giving away accounts and gold. If you thought people were upset they were selling gold, just wait until you see the reaction from this.

I agree Jagex is a business, I often make points on why it is silly for a business to do such a large scale free-for-all type update. Runescape has always been about building up your account, levels, and wealth. Now take that away from it, Runescape is just another PvP game that people will play, enjoy for awhile, realize there is no end to it, nor any specific reason to compete with others, and move onto whatever comes out next that is also neat.

The point here is that if people are not required to achieve things, what stops them from playing any other grab-and-go game?
The problem with the SoF and Solomon's Store are that pay-to-win elements are being forced upon the entire playerbase, leading people to believe that they have to buy spins and/or runecoins to keep up with everyone else. That is the key difference. In this situation you are just going to be presented with optional servers to mess around like God with and in. You are not going to be forced in any way to use them. Do existing private servers diminish your feeling of 'accomplishment'? I'm guessing no, because they do not directly interfere with the mechanics of RS2. You're making it out like we're going to be forced to compete against people who just maxed their accounts in 10 seconds by just typing in the desired levels and spawned full Torva with clicking through a few more screens, or however the hell it works, in the wilderness and beyond. We're not. The closest you'll come to contacting them is probably through spotting someone on your friends list who's on world "RS 06 2" (for example) as is the case with FunOrb and Classic today.

RS2 will still be around and catered to with fresh updates completely independent to all of this, if and when players get bored of these sandbox worlds many will slowly drift back to that and things will get back to normal soon enough. No-one's going to be worse off. It's not like we're asking Jagex for 100 expensive servers to maintain and entire new crews dedicated to keeping them 'fresh' with their own unique content.

Anyway, there's no reason to bring up people like Phoenix Odin to substantiate that particular argument when at the same time he didn't have it nearly as bad as the people who trained Runecrafting beforehand in Classic, members maxing out Prayer with the 'tedious' Ectofuntus lording it over 'noobs' who relied on the gilded altars when many free players conversely had to bury big bones for 99, and so on. Every generation thinks it has the right to criticise the next for whatever reason for having it stupidly easy whilst conviniently forgetting that the same logic literally applies to them. It's such a non-point to raise.

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“People are continually pointing out to me the wretchedness of white people in order to console me for the wretchedness of blacks. But an itemized account of the American failure does not console me and it should not console anyone else. That hundreds of thousands of white people are living, in effect, no better than the "African Americans" is not a fact to be regarded with complacency. The social and moral bankruptcy suggested by this fact is of the bitterest, most terrifying kind.”


#20 spoonheb

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 08:03 PM

View PostMurdoc, on 01 February 2013 - 07:46 PM, said:

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The problem with the SoF and Solomon's Store are that pay-to-win elements are being forced upon the entire playerbase, leading people to believe that they have to buy spins and/or runecoins to keep up with everyone else. That is the key difference. In this situation you are just going to be presented with optional servers to mess around like God with and in. You are not going to be forced in any way to use them. Do existing private servers diminish your feeling of 'accomplishment'? I'm guessing no, because they do not directly interfere with the mechanics of RS2.

Not sure when micro-transactions came into this.. but the amount of players who use those is minuscule compared to the amount of players who would use optional servers.
In a community such as RS options are not always what they appear, for instance if you don't like PK'ing in the wilderness you have the option of going to the crucible. The crucible is dead content, so you're back to square one.
Private servers do not diminish my sense of accomplishment because everybody knows that's not where people go to play the game seriously.

What I'm trying to say is that to achieve something you must have a way of measuring it, if anyone can obtain a level or gear; where is the achievement?

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RS2 will still be around and catered to with fresh updates completely independent to all of this, if and when players get bored of these sandbox worlds many will slowly drift back to that and things will get back to normal soon enough. No-one's going to be worse off.

I`m no coding expert but when Jagex says it takes them 8-12 months to create a single quest, how much time and effort do you think they would have to put into creating these servers and worlds? (They say they save their old code but even with old-code saved people want changes etc.)

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Every generation thinks it has the right to criticise the next for whatever reason for having it stupidly easy whilst conviniently forgetting that the same logic literally applies to them. It's such a non-point to raise.
The point here is that if people are not required to achieve things, what stops them from playing any other grab-and-go game?

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