44 replies to this topic

[Da Dragon]

I even predict that this will be locked, moved, or filled with predictable angry 'oh this subject again'-type posts & personal attacks - and that just adds to it.  I consider this a discussion and intend for it to be, so it would be nice if this topic wasn't silenced or attacked.

I made a post on the RS rants forum titled '2001 vet, done buying members' - claiming that I was not going to renew membership next month because I was fed up with the botting problem.  Moments after posting I noticed an old actively bumped topic by a user doing a reverse rant - complaining about people who rant about bots, assuring that Jagex was doing a good job and that people don't understand anything about it (his responses to replies were extremely aggressive and rude).  Within minutes, he was posting in my thread claiming that I was not from 2001 (over and over), took personal attacks upon me, went into detail about how the company works, rudely explaining how I'm clueless to the subject, and just constant doubts.  I instantly accused him of being either a shill poster or a cheater himself.  After that, other users were making very similar posts to his (sometimes using the same terms).  They looked at my profile and noticed that I had posted the comment in another thread, contacted a forum mod, and the mod hid my posts, locked the topic, and gave me a spam warning.  Think about it for a second - if a player is pleased with the way cheating is being handled, would he have ANY reason to spend that much effort towards these actions?

I mean, seriously.  Undercover Jagex employee?  It's more believable than the 2012 doomsday garbage.  Just think about it - I post a complaint about cheaters, people furiously try to silence me, sidetrack with other subjects, and get a mod to hide my content.  It's getting obvious that Jagex isn't putting in full effort to the problem, it's worse than ever, and (I'm sure this has been said a thousand times) I get the feeling that they won't take proper action because bots are probably a large portion of their profits.  MMG said that player numbers have been declining for years and never picked up - it only makes sense.  I don't see what there isn't to understand.  Player mods can easily devote a few moments of their time to report and mute advertisers yet they're still on every world (if I were a pmod, it would be the first thing I'd do), jmods can world hop (quickly) at botting hotspots to clean them up (I've watched Mod Mark ban bots on the spot in Classic, it's possible), and there's thousands of bot accounts with the most obvious display names.  Think I'm wrong?  I actually knew one of the very first player mods several years ago.  One day, she secretly showed me a personal message she got from a jmod telling her certain players/rule-breakers that they didn't want her taking action against & they even told her to avoid reporting/muting people on RS Classic (this was back when Classic was still actively played).  (I have a feeling people will blow that last part out of proportion, explaining Classic being a retired project and all.  It's just the principal of the subject).

There's nothing to not understand about it - I've been watching this game for 11 years and I know for a fact that the proper effort is not even close to taking place.  I've also never seen anyone make this point before: when they claimed bot nuke to be successful, they removed (like about?) 40 worlds or so.  The bots returned, the worlds didn't... which makes things SIGNIFICANTLY worse than before (AND it saved Jagex money on servers!).  I was obviously silenced for a reason and (like I said) I can see this thread either getting locked or people pretty much doing the same thing.  I'm one of the oldest existing players in this entire game (inb4 sad, get a life, other rude comments - keep reading).  I've been playing for this long because I have serious medical problems so I have nothing else to do with my time - but, next month, I'm converting to free worlds and refusing to purchase members again unless the problem is fixed.

I can't believe that the remaining community isn't having daily riots over the current conditions of things.  Jagex has paid their employees to spend days... working on graphical updates... and outfits... when there's serious problems happening.  I officially believe that they keep them around for profit and I've even seen people say that they believe Jagex themselves are the gold sellers.  My personal prediction is that about half the game bots (probably way off) - that's thousands of dollars every month.  I know it's not the easiest job in the world but if you haven't noticed the neglect by now, you're not paying attention, you're a cheater yourself, you're ignorant, or you're brown nosing for an account promotion.  It's very shameful that there isn't constant outrages about what's going on and I wish I could convince you guys to stand up for your fantasy realm but I know I probably can't.  Not every online game in the world is stable - I'm actually shocked RS has lasted this long.  It might be a bad comparison since a sequel was made but, for example, did Halo 2 online servers last forever?  Updates are becoming more and more controversial - if you care about RS, you'll wake up and demand your game back.

Edited by Da Dragon, 19 December 2012 - 06:36 PM.

[Panicking]

Things on RuneScape change and the game keeps moving on even if people think it's in the wrong direction.  Just keep moving foward and don't complain about the flaws and look at positives (inb4nopositives)

[Ax e]

Players came to the conclusion that Jagex purposely doesn't ban bots quite a while ago lol. Bots literally make like 50% of Jagex's profits.

[Loco.]

During double dungeoneering xp they did hand out auto bans.

[Da Dragon]

I'm trying to look for positives.  I would have quit a long time ago if I had something else to occupy me with. I concluded recently that I don't enjoy skilling - only combat, yet I don't like EoC.  I'm trying to adjust to it so I explored slayer.  I world hopped for like 2 hours searching for a mature grotworms spot (even the foreign worlds) and couldn't find anything.  I enjoy training there for the loot I can bank with my pack yak (especially since they're weak to range. <3 range) but it's impossible to get a kill.  I mean, they literally prevent us from playing a game we pay monthly fees for.  Just like you can't woodcut the good trees anymore among other things.

I've been wondering about that conclusion (about the profits) for a long time as well but didn't really want to believe it.

*edit* As if there's anything in this post that deserves a thumbs down.  Bunch of jokes here.

Edited by Da Dragon, 09 February 2013 - 08:23 PM.

[Duke Narked]

Look for positives: A lot of bots do repeative and boring things like collect flax, and spin them in to bow strings, they collect a lot of resources that many people can be stuff to collect, ie frog's legs and other herblore ingredients. And if they find a really good way to collect resources that brings in  lots of gold per hour and word gets out that item will crash, like herbs did with soc garden and red chins with hunter.

Bot are and will always be part of these games. These companies really don't care because they still pay for the game they don't play. Runescape really could have no one work on it from now on and all that will be left are bots, they will still make an income off those people that bot. There is only one way to stop bots, stop playing.

[Da Dragon]

Duke Narked, on 19 December 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:

Look for positives: A lot of bots do repeative and boring things like collect flax, and spin them in to bow strings, they collect a lot of resources that many people can be stuff to collect, ie frog's legs and other herblore ingredients. And if they find a really good way to collect resources that brings in  lots of gold per hour and word gets out that item will crash, like herbs did with soc garden and red chins with hunter.

Lol.  Yeah and that horribly messes up the economy.  Back in RS Classic, skilling/resourcing actually made intense money and would sometimes even be enough to buy party hats.  In 2004, I mined and smelted 5,000 steel bars in a few weeks, sold the certificates ('notes' as you guys call it) to a guy going for 99 smithing, and had enough money to buy a yellow party hat, a santa hat, and had some money leftover to buy armor (now the only options are merchanting and gambling).  If there's thousands of bots providing things for the GE, it lowers the demand and value of the boring aspects of the game.  No pity for skillers?  Shake my head.  You guys don't even understand what you're missing out on.  Now a days, skilling COSTS MONEY because everyone wants their precious skill capes.  Oh, but wait, that's nostalgia goggles, isn't it!

Quote

Bot are and will always be part of these games. These companies really don't care because they still pay for the game they don't play. Runescape really could have no one work on it from now on and all that will be left are bots, they will still make an income off those people that bot. There is only one way to stop bots, stop playing.

Yeah, nice attitude.  This is just like real life as well.  Anarchists are trying to tell everyone the horrible condition the world is in and how much better it could be - yet everyone is too busy drinking beer and watching television and saying to just learn to live with it.  Or they're too busy screaming 'tinfoil hats' at them.  I'd hate to sound like I'm attacking you but this is freaking ridiculous.

Oh, but let me guess.  I should quit.  I think I'm quitting this topic.  You guys make me realize that there's no getting through to anyone.  The world is just too dense.  Enjoy taking your zombie meds and accepting your fates - if you're happy with crumbs, then you don't know how good the cake is.  I was trying to help you guys but you don't seem to want it or understand how to accept it or learn from it.  Oh and don't forget the negative ratings.  You guys seem to resort to that when people make good yet rude points.  It's a crime to ask questions and think outside the box.  My points are very accurate and strong but I know that I'm just talking to a wall now.

The ratings have already started, lol.  I say how predictable things are and zombies still go through with it.  Pathetic.  DON'T LET THE TRUTH GET OUT!  IT'S BAD TO EDUCATE PEOPLE!  I wonder if the little scout currently reading is going to do something about it.

Bye.

Edited by Da Dragon, 19 December 2012 - 07:19 PM.

[Hesitation]

Whoa now, don't devolve into a spitting rant. That's the last thing to do to try for a conductive discussion.

I think that the desensitization theory (that someone else had suggested elsewhere) is likely why people aren't really going on riots or raging anarchists, bar catalyzing updates. When updates come and go, things go unchanged, and either people leave or accept the fact, and the end result is a more "numbed" community. Heck, if you were around during the Bounty Hunter times you'd know that bots were a dime a dozen, and the negativity was so thick you needed a hacksaw to cut through it (I should know, I was one such pessimist). But people still played nevertheless, and they likely would have had the bot nuke came or not.

Botting is a problem, a persistent problem, and like a virus in real life, there's no absolute cure; bot programmers modify bots with sufficiently astonishing speed that the company will almost always be a step or two behind, and not all permutations can be solved as quick as the last. The company is always on the backpedal, always trying to guess what will be thrown at them next, always at the disadvantage. Jagex does what it can, as do many other online gaming companies. Is it sufficient for us players? Probably not, and likely never will. With variables ranging from costs and prices to limitations of advancing (and obsolescing) technology, bots are omnipresent; we can never eliminate their presence, only mitigate them and cut their numbers. A sobering reality, but at least a workable one. Without enough knowledge of the brass tacks, we can only identify the problem; we are in no position to solve it, that's Jagex's department, and if you believe that there is some causative correlation between botting and Jagex's authority, you're not the first (and likely not the last).

[Rodney King]

There is no cospiracy.

Ever since IVP and those other 2 private equity firms started taking stakes in Jagex Ltd, and the Gower bothers left the scene, the game content and accountability to the community and player base has gone downhill.

Take it as a given, if you are backed by a private equity firm that is trying to deliver on it's investment in you,

- things will become monetised (SOF/solomon's/microtransactions)
- content and updates will be rushed to meet deadlines (EoC, weapon/game imbalances, item redundancy)
- pressure will be applied to senior CO's and managers to increase revenue (lack of action towards bots, microtranactions, refer a friend schemes)
- ignoring player base due to cutting staff cost/focusing on other game development projects, e.g Transformers (after failed attempts to launch MechScape and StellarDawn, Jagex staff are under the pump to deliver with Transformers and RS3, makes sense for them to flog a dead horse in RS2 and not care so much about community feedback, at the risk of further staff loses and negative feedback).

[Duke Narked]

Da Dragon, on 19 December 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

Duke Narked, on 19 December 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:

Look for positives: A lot of bots do repeative and boring things like collect flax, and spin them in to bow strings, they collect a lot of resources that many people can be stuff to collect, ie frog's legs and other herblore ingredients. And if they find a really good way to collect resources that brings in  lots of gold per hour and word gets out that item will crash, like herbs did with soc garden and red chins with hunter.

Lol.  Yeah and that horribly messes up the economy.  Back in RS Classic, skilling/resourcing actually made intense money and would sometimes even be enough to buy party hats.  In 2004, I mined and smelted 5,000 steel bars in a few weeks, sold the certificates ('notes' as you guys call it) to a guy going for 99 smithing, and had enough money to buy a yellow party hat, a santa hat, and had some money leftover to buy armor (now the only options are merchanting and gambling).  If there's thousands of bots providing things for the GE, it lowers the demand and value of the boring aspects of the game.  No pity for skillers?  Shake my head.  You guys don't even understand what you're missing out on.  Now a days, skilling COSTS MONEY because everyone wants their precious skill capes.  Oh, but wait, that's nostalgia goggles, isn't it!

Quote

Bot are and will always be part of these games. These companies really don't care because they still pay for the game they don't play. Runescape really could have no one work on it from now on and all that will be left are bots, they will still make an income off those people that bot. There is only one way to stop bots, stop playing.

Yeah, nice attitude.  This is just like real life as well.  Anarchists are trying to tell everyone the horrible condition the world is in and how much better it could be - yet everyone is too busy drinking beer and watching television and saying to just learn to live with it.  Or they're too busy screaming 'tinfoil hats' at them.  I'd hate to sound like I'm attacking you but this is freaking ridiculous.

Oh, but let me guess.  I should quit.  I think I'm quitting this topic.  You guys make me realize that there's no getting through to anyone.  The world is just too dense.  Enjoy taking your zombie meds and accepting your fates - if you're happy with crumbs, then you don't know how good the cake is.  I was trying to help you guys but you don't seem to want it or understand how to accept it or learn from it.  Oh and don't forget the negative ratings.  You guys seem to resort to that when people make good yet rude points.  It's a crime to ask questions and think outside the box.  My points are very accurate and strong but I know that I'm just talking to a wall now.

The ratings have already started, lol.  I say how predictable things are and zombies still go through with it.  Pathetic.  DON'T LET THE TRUTH GET OUT!  IT'S BAD TO EDUCATE PEOPLE!  I wonder if the little scout currently reading is going to do something about it.

Bye.

So, you assume that I accept the fate of a game, which I have no control over, I must live a zombie like existence in my life?

Runescape is a game, it's not real life. I have no control over the game, no one here has no control over the game. The only control I have is what I choose to do and not  to do in the game. How is that like real life? How is that a bad attitude towards the game. Should I start writing treating letters to Jagex telling them I going to kill a gnome every hour until they get rid of all the bots? I mean how far to you take the war on bots? Do you spend every minute of every day fighting and fighting. And for what? So you can play bare MMORPG? What fun is that? I rather play the game, accept the fate and still enjoy it. Seriously? If you are going to get butt hurt over a few AI cheating at a game, wait until you get a real job and meet your boss. You think cheating in a game is bad, see cheating in real life.

If you are unhappy with things and they aren't going to change. don't waste effort. Know what is and isn't worth fighting for, because the time you waste on a endless project could of been put to a better use.

Edited by Duke Narked, 20 December 2012 - 06:26 AM.

[Nott Vaengr]

A couple of points that I hope to see come to pass....

First, RS3 will have more efficient and effective anti-botting measures.

I've wondered how much income the botting companies and gold-farmers make.  I've watched dozens upon dozens of gold advertisers get banned and have to wonder how does that business model make a profit.  It has to buy a membership each time.  Has anyone anywhere correlated the gold-seller's accounts with credit cards?  Those card numbers should be banned, especially if it were a stolen number.  With the number of gold sellers and bots and the number of card numbers involved (I've seen posters claim they use stolen card numbers) it seems that it would be a simple process that if one bot is banned (and let's make it an obvious bot please so legit players don't get caught up in this too much) all the accounts attached to that card number get banned too.  A great example would mature grotworms and brutal green dragon bots right now.  EOC makes multicombat on those mobs a 3 second kill. I was there 2 days ago for a combat challenge and just on the first 2 brutal green dragons I counted 21 bots.  Just to check, I went back there 2 days later and the same names were still there.  I say, ban those accounts, ban the payment method for each account and ban all accounts associated with those payment methods.

Somehow I don't think Jagex is going to do that.  It seems likely that Jagex is counting on new money coming in from new players with RS3 and is not devoting time to making sure the playing environment is good for existing players before the handover.  It may not just a long term cost effective use of their employee's time.  Sigh.

I do think that as a playerbase, we've become inured to the existence of bots and do ignore them.

[Darth koo]

Da Dragon, on 19 December 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

Duke Narked, on 19 December 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:

Look for positives: A lot of bots do repeative and boring things like collect flax, and spin them in to bow strings, they collect a lot of resources that many people can be stuff to collect, ie frog's legs and other herblore ingredients. And if they find a really good way to collect resources that brings in  lots of gold per hour and word gets out that item will crash, like herbs did with soc garden and red chins with hunter.

Lol.  Yeah and that horribly messes up the economy.  Back in RS Classic, skilling/resourcing actually made intense money and would sometimes even be enough to buy party hats.  In 2004, I mined and smelted 5,000 steel bars in a few weeks, sold the certificates ('notes' as you guys call it) to a guy going for 99 smithing, and had enough money to buy a yellow party hat, a santa hat, and had some money leftover to buy armor (now the only options are merchanting and gambling).  If there's thousands of bots providing things for the GE, it lowers the demand and value of the boring aspects of the game.  No pity for skillers?  Shake my head.  You guys don't even understand what you're missing out on.  Now a days, skilling COSTS MONEY because everyone wants their precious skill capes.  Oh, but wait, that's nostalgia goggles, isn't it!

Quote

Bot are and will always be part of these games. These companies really don't care because they still pay for the game they don't play. Runescape really could have no one work on it from now on and all that will be left are bots, they will still make an income off those people that bot. There is only one way to stop bots, stop playing.

Yeah, nice attitude.  This is just like real life as well.  Anarchists are trying to tell everyone the horrible condition the world is in and how much better it could be - yet everyone is too busy drinking beer and watching television and saying to just learn to live with it.  Or they're too busy screaming 'tinfoil hats' at them.  I'd hate to sound like I'm attacking you but this is freaking ridiculous.

Oh, but let me guess.  I should quit.  I think I'm quitting this topic.  You guys make me realize that there's no getting through to anyone.  The world is just too dense.  Enjoy taking your zombie meds and accepting your fates - if you're happy with crumbs, then you don't know how good the cake is.  I was trying to help you guys but you don't seem to want it or understand how to accept it or learn from it.  Oh and don't forget the negative ratings.  You guys seem to resort to that when people make good yet rude points.  It's a crime to ask questions and think outside the box.  My points are very accurate and strong but I know that I'm just talking to a wall now.

The ratings have already started, lol.  I say how predictable things are and zombies still go through with it.  Pathetic.  DON'T LET THE TRUTH GET OUT!  IT'S BAD TO EDUCATE PEOPLE!  I wonder if the little scout currently reading is going to do something about it.

Bye.

Your RSOF style ranting and "I'm smarter than anyone" and self-righteous attitudes is why you are getting negative votes.  Also your points are not as strong as you think they are. I want to point out you can still make money with skilling if you gather your own stuff. Gathering your own stuff will always make you more money in stead off buying from someone else. Of course skilling is not as good as it once was because the things you make from skilling are not the best anymore (ie armor and weapons).  That in term lowers the price of items needed to make finish products. Also with the EOC, items like food and potions aren't that great as they once were. Nowadays the best stuff comes from monster drops and now (player-owned ports).  Also the main point of this game is leveling, so the finish product is always going to be lower than the items needed to make it. Also phats are worth more now than they were worth in 2005.

[Marduk]

If you have been playing since 2001, you should know that botting has been endemic since classic. That's not intended as a sneer or a snide comment, just an observation - your post is written from the perspective as if you're genuinly surprised with the current situation (total lack of response to the problem).

You see, it's not that people haven't noticed the problem before, or weren't willing to fight for it. It's that they've done so for years... Ever since 2006 there's been oodles of these topics. Oodles. Riots, rants, constructive topics aplenty... The problem has been signalled time and again, attention has been drawn to it too many times to count.

And in the grand scheme of things, nothing has changed. After a while, you get so tired of saying the same thing over and over and over... You draw your conclusions and move on. People have given up.

This is why people aren't out there fighting this any more - because it's the equivalent of fighting against windmills. Too many people have just stopped caring altogether.

Edited by Marduk, 21 December 2012 - 03:38 AM.

[Blackenese]

LocoThugs, on 19 December 2012 - 05:44 PM, said:

During double dungeoneering xp they did hand out auto bans.

Where did you read this?

[Koutla60]

Since those investors and others messed around with Jagex the game went downhill.
Accept the fact
Or play something else it won't  be the same like it was before.

[Darth koo]

I don't see what Jagex can do really, and it's not like people been giving them suggestions, other than get rid of free trade and wildy again. The only way i can think of battling bots is get rid of free trade, wildy, and the GE. I don't know about you, but i rather have the bots than lose those three things.

[Scott]

Da Dragon, on 19 December 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

Yeah, nice attitude.  This is just like real life as well.  Anarchists are trying to tell everyone the horrible condition the world is in and how much better it could be - yet everyone is too busy drinking beer and watching television and saying to just learn to live with it.  Or they're too busy screaming 'tinfoil hats' at them.  I'd hate to sound like I'm attacking you but this is freaking ridiculous.

Oh, but let me guess.  I should quit.  I think I'm quitting this topic.  You guys make me realize that there's no getting through to anyone.  The world is just too dense.  Enjoy taking your zombie meds and accepting your fates - if you're happy with crumbs, then you don't know how good the cake is.  I was trying to help you guys but you don't seem to want it or understand how to accept it or learn from it.  Oh and don't forget the negative ratings.  You guys seem to resort to that when people make good yet rude points.  It's a crime to ask questions and think outside the box.  My points are very accurate and strong but I know that I'm just talking to a wall now.

The ratings have already started, lol.  I say how predictable things are and zombies still go through with it.  Pathetic.  DON'T LET THE TRUTH GET OUT!  IT'S BAD TO EDUCATE PEOPLE!  I wonder if the little scout currently reading is going to do something about it.

Bye.

The problem with your analogy is that as citizens of a country we generally have more power than people realize. We can vote, protest, petition, donate, boycott, etc. In RuneScape, however, really our only options for changing things that we don't like are 1) letting Jagex know by posting on the forums (which is unlikely to have any meaningful impact) or 2) ending our membership. While #2 probably makes the biggest statement as you're telling Jagex things have gotten so bad that you're no longer going to pay them, it doesn't help you, the consumer, because you're still left without a game that you enjoy playing. So yes, unfortunately, when there's nothing you can really do to change a product, you have to make a statement financially. In the context of RuneScape, that means quitting.

The other issue with your post is your holier than thou attitude. People disagree with you, and instead of evaluating their opinions, you start going off about how everyone else is too dense and how we'll never understand things like you do. Have you ever thought that perhaps people simply see things differently? Perhaps not everyone is in need of your "help." Perhaps people actually are happy the way things are. Just a thought.

Lastly, for someone who seems pretty confident in how amazingly "accurate and strong" his points are, you get awfully shaken up about someone giving your posts negative ratings. Instead of accepting the fact that it's a meaningless system that exists just to let you know whether the majority of people reading agree or disagree with you, you wonder how people have the nerve to press a little red minus sign next to your almighty posts. Don't people know how good your points are? How dare they!

Relax. If people disagree with you, they're going to rate your posts negatively, and if they agree with you, they'll rate them positively. Stop acting like people are trying to silence some prophet just because they choose to disagree with something you say. I understand you get worked up by bots, but some people don't. That doesn't mean they're pathetic or part of some sort of conspiracy.

[Vardarac]

Quote

Just keep moving foward and don't complain about the flaws and look at positives

Yes! Please! By all means, put on your blinders. Let's not call out mediocrity, failure to meet benchmarks and standards set by the hosts themselves, or corruption, or backtracking where we see it. Just trust in Jagex. Trust, dammit! You've been trusting them with your wallets for years, they can't be going wrong!

Edited by Vardarac, 21 December 2012 - 02:48 AM.

[Boris D]

Let's see... what was runescape like all that time ago...

There was mining... which required you to click each swing and you never knew whether the ore was in the rock or not so you either just hoped or prospected. You also had more use in mining because rune smithing produced the BEST weapons and armor available in the game, bar none.

Woodcutting was useless. All you could do with it is level firemaking, which also was useless. So that provided no money.

Fishing... you went to brimhaven island to the little dock, you dropped your lobster pot or harpoon into the water one click at a time, hoped someone brought a hatchet and tinderbox to make a fire on the pier. Then, when you filled your inventory, you took the ship back to port sarim and went to drayanor bank to either deposit the fish or bank them.

Farming, slayer, runecrafting, summoning, hunter, construction, dungeoneering - none of these existed.


And despite that, bots existed. But why were things so different? Because smithing was more useful, and swordfish were the best form of healing. There were no sara brews, or familiars, or EoC.



Things change. Including games. When it no longer is fun, you quit and look for a new one. Or you adapt. Things happen that will make you unhappy. Squeal of fortune spins being buyable. Microtransactions selling pets that provide in game benefits. Bots feeling overwhelmingly common. The market crashing and you losing all your money. The wilderness being removed. Something will always happen to make someone unhappy. And if it's too much for you, you find something new. Once upon a time runescape cared a lot more than they do now, and that's a fact. One could claim they "sold out" and people have mentioned that. When you start to be run by people who care about profit moreso than quality/character you get what you have now. Is there a conspiracy? I don't think so. I think they are banning bots.

But here's the thing you have to know about bots. Jagex will always be the one reacting rather than the one acting. For every botting mechanism put in place, they have to discover it, understand it, and make changes that can defeat it in a realistic way. That takes time. There's a turnover period. And it will NEVER end.

[Rarez]

I agree with Da Dragons. Jagex nowadays isn't the Jagex most old players grew up with. Even when Andrew and Paul were around, it was going downhill anyway. The first deathblow to rs2 was Jan 2008 with the removal of free trade + intro of BH. Nowadays it's just like walking around the Sahara Desert -- all you see is robots.

They were trying to do something with EoC but I just see it as a failure. Not only did it drive away the remaining loyal players, but it made combat lame (it was lame before, but it was the lame everyone was used to). It's basically the same point-click with a bunch of special effects (think of how some weps used to have spec effects, like that)...

Game died. Sucks but its gonna continue to change. Hopefully they come out with rs3

edit: The reason ppl don't generally like Da Dragon is cuz he isn't afraid to bluntly speak what's on his mind *and* he knows what he's talking about... cuz he's been around for a while. Btw, even though the rep system is pointless... it does matter cuz I used to downrate every single mod+ for lols and I got scrutinized n stuff.

Edited by Rarez, 22 December 2012 - 03:54 AM.