10 replies to this topic

[Sell For Irl]

Pondering about all the extra content in RS, Mobilising Armies, Conquest, Castle Wars, Barrows, Quests (long since the days of classic when a quest was 30-60 min), God Wars, PKing, Temple Trekking... there's probably 500 hours+ there, and that's only a few seconds of thinking, I am wondering if grinding is really necessary in RS anymore. To the point where "Are stats really required, or could they be removed?"
With the introduction of Player Owned Ports, there's another capable task that really doesn't need the level requirements. Add in things like personalizing your POH, and there's nearly limitless things to do in the game that shouldn't need levelling.
MineCraft gets by fine without level requirements (excl. enchanting)
Or make it like Skyrim, where levelling can be used to increase the effectiveness of your actions, but isn't required. (A level 1 Herblore Ovl would be +1 to skills, say level 20 Herb is +2 etc. Weaker stuff would become more effective faster, but also peaks sooner) In RS, only Strength and Range become noticeably more effective as you level, without changing equipment.

Anyways, back to the point - you could play RS, and have lots of fun, if you did not need to level any skills to enjoy all the aspects. So, in your opinion, is the Grind still required?

[Katz_Meister]

Yes it is in my opinion. People like to have targets for certain levels. It's like saying if player A is a rich level 3 who has the money to buy Torva, for example, and you have player B who is a poor level 200, does that mean that player A should be able to kill player B due to the fact that he has the better armour?

Sorry if I mis-understood, I am sick while I read this so I was kinda out of it =D

[Duke Narked]

Hell yes it is. I mean to truely enjoy the game you need to grind to get those levels. PKers, to get the maul, how many levels of dung would they have to go through to get the points? It make things worth it and makes it a huge achievement. I mean I personally plat RS for the satisfaction of achieving that goal. Whether it be to mine 10,000 coal or get 99 in a skill or even one level. It makes you want to achieve something. And that feeling that you get when you do, is good.

Skyrim, leveling doesn't make you want to achieve something, because you can do everything from level one with the right amount of skill and luck. Plus you arent comparing with anyone. When I level in Skyrim it more of a drain because I have to stop and add a skill.

[Sell For Irl]

Katz_Meister, on 17 December 2012 - 04:00 AM, said:

Yes it is in my opinion. People like to have targets for certain levels. It's like saying if player A is a rich level 3 who has the money to buy Torva, for example, and you have player B who is a poor level 200, does that mean that player A should be able to kill player B due to the fact that he has the better armour?

Sorry if I mis-understood, I am sick while I read this so I was kinda out of it =D

This is moreso saying that everyone be balanced out - no longer a level 3 or a level 200.
Consider it more like a private server, where you log in with maxed stats, but you have to work to get your items.

^Above: If you consider the tokens as a score rather than experience, it really makes no difference about levelling dung. You need to get 82 Dung for the Maul anyways, so a level requirement isn't necessary. Mining 10,000 coal as a goal is still a goal. Just, not as much of a requirement. If they focused less on the level side, and going "You need 83 Smithing to do this, and 84 to do that" and made it more about the material collection and effort to put the gear together, the skills would be more successful. Mining 13 Addy ore, 78 Coal, Smelting then smithing as the same thing for bronze is a little degrading labourwise. Make it so you can modify your smithing ability depending on what you put into it (Say Addy Ore, Mith Ore and Dragon Bones) would create a wider range of usable armours, and put more into the game.

Basically, put more focus into the gameplay instead of the levelling grind, and you would probably get more out of the game. There's a bunch of people who have played for years without a 99. Why? Because it shouldn't be necessary to no life for a month to play something fun.

[Duke Narked]

Each person definition of gameplay is going to be different from yours. Runescape is all about the levels, hate to say it but it's true. "Whats your level in this skill?" It has to be one of the most asked questions in the game. Face, the story line of Runescape are the quests, and what satisfaction do you get from just knocking over 200 quests in one go. I would have gotten more out of Saints Row if there was a level require for each mission, but instead I knocked the game over in an hour. Runescape, like other MMORPGs out there, know there targets are hardcore gamers that want the prefect signal player story line, which rewards with what you put in. Hence you need that level before you do that quest, so game is prolonged.

On the other players just want to grind and skill, that their definition of good game play.

[Money]

this would probably bring players in for the short term, but in the long term it would fail hard.

people aren't going to be motivated by fun for long. eventually the game will just get boring, and people will quit.

that's why you need 99s. it keeps people in the game to train those levels. why do you think jagex released 120 dungeoneering? why does jagex release any new skils?
it keeps people playing the game longer to get those high lvls, thus more subs and money for jagex.

[Renkotsu]

Beard, on 18 December 2012 - 06:14 AM, said:

this would probably bring players in for the short term, but in the long term it would fail hard.

people aren't going to be motivated by fun for long. eventually the game will just get boring, and people will quit.

that's why you need 99s. it keeps people in the game to train those levels. why do you think jagex released 120 dungeoneering? why does jagex release any new skils?
it keeps people playing the game longer to get those high lvls, thus more subs and money for jagex.

The thing that makes RuneScape different from games like Minecraft is that Minecraft was built WITHOUT much of a level system in place. Minecraft was designed with no level system in place, since the main focus of the game was just to build things and socilaise with other people. Therefore, skills aren't needed.

RuneScape was built from the very beginning with a level system in place. That effectively makes it a "foundation" for the game. Ever since RS's launch, more and more content in regard to skills has been released. If they were to take away the level grind, RuneScape itself would crumble entirely and it would be the final nail in the proverbial coffin, since skills have no use, and you'll have players left and right rage-quitting everywhere. There's also the feeling of satisfaction you get from getting a skill level up. That's why the Max cape was made. If skills weren't needed in RuneScape, then achievements such as the max cape would just be a symbol of you no-lifing at a game that doesn't require you to do such a thing. That effectively diminishes the value of the achievement itself.

My suggestion is to LESSEN the grind in terms of XP to next level. Right now, the grind curve goes up exponentially as you level up. If you were to reduce that curve by a factor of one power every seven, eleven, fourteen, and twenty three levels, the grind curve would be lessened, but your achievements would still have some value to it.

Below is an excerpt from the RuneScape Wiki as to what I'm talking about.

Spoiler

The amount of experience needed for the next level increases by approximately 10% each level. In fact, as a player's level increases, the growth factor rapidly approaches , or approximately 1.10409 (which is an increase of 10.409%). Note that a 10.409% growth factor may seem slow, but, as with all exponential growth, it expands rapidly to a massive 13,034,431 for level 99, and then to 104,273,163 experience needed for level 120. This growth factor results in the experience required for a given level being approximately double the experience of 7 levels before.
The varying amount of experience needed to get from one level to another can cause some surprising experience rates to get from one level to another. For example, getting from level 98 to 99 requires approximately the same experience from level 1 to level 75. However, it is worth noting that higher level activities in many cases award more experience than lower level ones, so getting from level 98 to 99 will likely not take as long as getting from level 1 to 75. However, the experience per hour rates still usually increase linearly when moving to a faster training method.
In general, if the difference between two levels is x, then the experience at the higher level will be approximately times the experience at the lower level. In particular, the experience doubles every 7 levels, triples every 11 levels, quadruples every 14 levels, and increases 10-fold every 23 levels

You can read the whole thing here

Edited by The Puppetmaster, 18 December 2012 - 08:14 AM.

[Mickey]

Stats give people a reason to keep playing, and keep progressing. Without them, even with all the extra content, you wouldn't be playing the game very long.

[Derp]

I personally enjoy aims etc hence why I like rs, I can set targets I guess for myself but that's just how I am. :p

[1clan o 3 OG DD]

The whole reason I play Runescape is because the stat system.  Not many games have used the system as well as RS has.

[Kathy]

If there were not a level system for each skill, a series of quests that required those levels to complete them, or an advantage to new and better things in each skill to gain in the game - the whole point of grinding would be pointless. There would be no fun if there were no rewards from the effort in achieving them - because that is what makes grinding have meaning in RS.