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The Whole "hating Change" Arguement


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#1 Semmm

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 02:12 PM

I personally really dislike people just saying everyone who opposes the update hates change or is viewing the game through nostalgia goggles.

I am not as long a veteran as some on here but I have been playing on and off since 05 so I feel like my input can be taken seriously.

Personally I think the EOC is a cool update. It makes ranged (which is my particular favorite combat style) much more fun with with new abilities and it makes combat more interactive and skillful as well. Some people would argue the fact that its become just an ability spam fest but those who argue that I think fail to see the fact that the spam to win mechanic will quickly die out once people learn to actually use the abilities wisely.

Now for the whole "hating change" thing. Personally while I do like EOC I agree with those who oppose it that its just not the same game anymore. Saying everyone hates change is just an ignorant argument at best. Most of the player base began playing in the simple times where a whip was the the end all of weapons in the game and 85 slayer meant you were bankin. The game now and back then barely resemble each other when it comes to complexity and to some that is a turn off. With this new combat system RS threw out its unique combat system and embraced the same combat that every other MMO out there has and the fact that players complain about this isnt due to "hating change" its simply just the fact that its become a game many players dont enjoy as its the unique combat system that they liked in game and now that is a thing of the past.

#2 iHockey

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 02:24 PM

Trying to be like other games, the abilities in F2P make it like P2P and there's been a reason P2P has been a disaster for so long now. There were alot of people who played this game and enjoyed the simplicity of it. It was unlike any other game out there and I have no clue how you can see fault in people not enjoying a massive change to some thing they've enjoyed the way it is for an extended amount of time. Some people are going to enjoy it, some are not. I haven't enjoyed this game for much other than F2P PvP for a long time and this is just turning everything but 1v1 into a disaster because of the beyond stupid abilities.

I am one of those people who hates change. I've always thought if it isn't broken why fix it. The combat system RS had made it what it was. Now it is just another generic MMO.

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#3 ~ Darky ~

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 02:37 PM

View PostSemmm, on 23 November 2012 - 02:12 PM, said:

Now for the whole "hating change" thing. Personally while I do like EOC I agree with those who oppose it that its just not the same game anymore. Saying everyone hates change is just an ignorant argument at best. Most of the player base began playing in the simple times where a whip was the the end all of weapons in the game and 85 slayer meant you were bankin. The game now and back then barely resemble each other when it comes to complexity and to some that is a turn off. With this new combat system RS threw out its unique combat system and embraced the same combat that every other MMO out there has and the fact that players complain about this isnt due to "hating change" its simply just the fact that its become a game many players dont enjoy as its the unique combat system that they liked in game and now that is a thing of the past.

People can complain about the update all they want, most of them pay to play the game and if they pay to play it then they have a right to complain about something they don't agree with, just like they are allowed to cancel their membership.

Sure there have been updates to the game that introduced new weapons and armor, I played even before whips came out and were a common thing, I remember when I was f2p and steel arrows were all people that ranged had.  Now the weapons are different but before EOC the basics of the game were the same.  you say RS threw out their old combat system to embrace the system every other MMO has, people played this game with its mediocre graphics and what not because it was different  may as well all go start playing WoW or LoL or something else if you want to go play one of the 100+ generic MMOs that are superior to RS.  People liked the old because it was unique now its nothing more then a half done crappy copy of ever other MMO out there.  It may not have been complex and it certainly wasn't perfect but at least it was different.

Edited by ~ Darky ~, 23 November 2012 - 02:39 PM.

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#4 Ankit

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 02:50 PM

The unique part of RS was it's simplicity.  The click and own aspect was so simple that it was unique.  If I wanted to have this whole ability crap then I would play other games like World of Warcraft, Guild Wars, Eve etc.  

+I don't really get why you're trying to justify a reason to play.  If you want to continue playing, by all means go for it.  However please stop trying to convince others to play, it's their choice whether to try it out or not.  These posts are just a waste of space and don't deserve any merit because quite frankly, you're not gonna change anything.

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#5 Magick

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 04:07 PM

This is pretty much what I have been posting for the past month. I hope people can actually try and use valid points now. Apparently, we "hate change," yet we have stuck with the game through its various major changes; removal of the Wilderness, BH Craters, PvP worlds etc.

Edited by Magick, 23 November 2012 - 04:09 PM.

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#6 JBishie

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 04:21 PM

I'm inclined to agree with the majority. The EOC is not an update I welcome. Make your voices known, I say.

Edited by JBishie, 23 November 2012 - 04:22 PM.

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#7 Nebbo 67

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 06:50 PM

Agree with pretty much everything exept it being "more skillfull", the reality of it is that it is actually just an ability spamfest and nothing more. Using abilities in the right combo does not constitute skill, any newb can look up the best DPS combo on a wiki.

Edited by Nebbo 67, 23 November 2012 - 06:50 PM.

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#8 Darth koo

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 05:08 PM

View PostAnkit, on 23 November 2012 - 02:50 PM, said:

The unique part of RS was it's simplicity.  The click and own aspect was so simple that it was unique.  If I wanted to have this whole ability crap then I would play other games like World of Warcraft, Guild Wars, Eve etc.  

+I don't really get why you're trying to justify a reason to play.  If you want to continue playing, by all means go for it.  However please stop trying to convince others to play, it's their choice whether to try it out or not.  These posts are just a waste of space and don't deserve any merit because quite frankly, you're not gonna change anything.

The quick and own fighting style was never unique, it was the first attacking style that is all (in MMOs). Also this is a copy cat world, if it works one for MMO, than others are going to copy it.
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#9 Ankit

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 05:12 PM

View PostDarth koo, on 25 November 2012 - 05:08 PM, said:

View PostAnkit, on 23 November 2012 - 02:50 PM, said:

The unique part of RS was it's simplicity.  The click and own aspect was so simple that it was unique.  If I wanted to have this whole ability crap then I would play other games like World of Warcraft, Guild Wars, Eve etc.  

+I don't really get why you're trying to justify a reason to play.  If you want to continue playing, by all means go for it.  However please stop trying to convince others to play, it's their choice whether to try it out or not.  These posts are just a waste of space and don't deserve any merit because quite frankly, you're not gonna change anything.

The quick and own fighting style was never unique, it was the first attacking style that is all (in MMOs). Also this is a copy cat world, if it works one for MMO, than others are going to copy it.
So you're saying that you require the use of multiple keys/buttons etc. when killing bandos at high content?  When compared to WOW raids or LOL fights, the amount of clicking/micromanaging required is nonexistent.  So please don't try to tell me that RS was a complicated game before when compared to others lol

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#10 B.A. Baracus

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 06:16 PM

We're still talking about this? Can't we just move on instead of posting a topic about why we do/don't like EoC every other day? Please?
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#11 Redraven45

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 06:29 PM

View PostB.A. Baracus, on 25 November 2012 - 06:16 PM, said:

We're still talking about this? Can't we just move on instead of posting a topic about why we do/don't like EoC every other day? Please?
I have a suggestion, how about you don't click on topics concerning EoC if you don't like it? Seems quite complicated, I know.



#12 B.A. Baracus

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 06:47 PM

View PostRedraven45, on 25 November 2012 - 06:29 PM, said:

I have a suggestion, how about you don't click on topics concerning EoC if you don't like it? Seems quite complicated, I know.

I keep expecting there to be new, interesting discussions, but it's still the same old arguments being rehashed over and over. Maybe I should stop clicking on these topics, but I might miss these fascinating discussions otherwise.
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#13 Lieutenant Dan

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 07:08 PM

View PostSemmm, on 23 November 2012 - 02:12 PM, said:

Now for the whole "hating change" thing. Personally while I do like EOC I agree with those who oppose it that its just not the same game anymore. Saying everyone hates change is just an ignorant argument at best.
No. Resisting change is actually a very vital part of human nature. It's part of the survival instinct. But I digress...

View PostSemmm, on 23 November 2012 - 02:12 PM, said:

Most of the player base began playing in the simple times where a whip was the the end all of weapons in the game and 85 slayer meant you were bankin. The game now and back then barely resemble each other when it comes to complexity and to some that is a turn off.
Nostalgia (n): A sentimental longing for the past, typically for a period or place with happy personal associations.

You're saying that we shouldn't say that the people who are hell-bent against the EoC aren't nostalgic, yet you defend them with the very definition of nostalgia.... Interesting, I will have to keep foolproof arguments like that in mind for the next controversial update...

The fact of the matter is that the only arguments I see against the Evolution of Combat that aren't dripping with nostalgia is that that somehow the point, click, wait style of combat was somehow unique. What the actual f***? That is in no way, shape, or form a 'unique' combat mechanic. That is a ten year old combat mechanic that is way overdue for an update. You know what other MMO had a point, click, wait mechanic for combat? Ultima Online, and that was released in 1997. RuneScape hasn't seen a vast combat update since the jump from RSC to RS2 in March 2004. For EIGHT stinking years we've had the same combat system. The same dang system. It's gotten stale, and the developers of JaGEx said themselves that they were running out of things they could do with combat to keep it mildly interesting. I am quite looking forward for the challenges that await us in the future of RuneScape instead of whining and complaining about how things used to be. Get off your nostalgic butts and evolve or die. I am sick and f***ing tired of hearing people moan about how "old RS was better" or "06scape ftw." Shut up. It's getting almost as old as the Squeal of Fortune complaints that people still seem to bring up, despite the painful truth that it's not going away. A wise man once said...

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Edited by Lieutenant Dan, 26 November 2012 - 06:23 AM.

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#14 ProDharoker

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 08:35 PM

I agree that if the only reason you dont like the EOC is because you're against change, then you are of substandard intelligence.
However, the change has caused many negative effects, such as rendering unique accounts that many people have spent a lot of time on useless.

Edited by ProDharoker, 25 November 2012 - 08:45 PM.


#15 B0rntowildy

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:05 AM

View PostMagickal, on 23 November 2012 - 04:07 PM, said:

This is pretty much what I have been posting for the past month. I hope people can actually try and use valid points now. Apparently, we "hate change," yet we have stuck with the game through its various major changes; removal of the Wilderness, BH Craters, PvP worlds etc.

You know what the removal of the Wilderness, BH Craters, PvP worlds etc had in common? They all had the same combat system.

#16 Magick

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:28 AM

View PostB0rntowildy, on 26 November 2012 - 11:05 AM, said:

View PostMagickal, on 23 November 2012 - 04:07 PM, said:

This is pretty much what I have been posting for the past month. I hope people can actually try and use valid points now. Apparently, we "hate change," yet we have stuck with the game through its various major changes; removal of the Wilderness, BH Craters, PvP worlds etc.

You know what the removal of the Wilderness, BH Craters, PvP worlds etc had in common? They all had the same combat system.
Irrelevant to my point; they are still changes.

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#17 B0rntowildy

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    thnx for reading :d

Posted 26 November 2012 - 04:24 PM

View PostMagickal, on 26 November 2012 - 11:28 AM, said:

View PostB0rntowildy, on 26 November 2012 - 11:05 AM, said:

View PostMagickal, on 23 November 2012 - 04:07 PM, said:

This is pretty much what I have been posting for the past month. I hope people can actually try and use valid points now. Apparently, we "hate change," yet we have stuck with the game through its various major changes; removal of the Wilderness, BH Craters, PvP worlds etc.

You know what the removal of the Wilderness, BH Craters, PvP worlds etc had in common? They all had the same combat system.
Irrelevant to my point; they are still changes.

It's not irrelevant. Obviously they're both changes, but the main thing was not changed - which was the combat system. It's easier to adapt to a different place so to speak, than it is to adapt to a new revamped system.

#18 Magick

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 04:43 PM

View PostB0rntowildy, on 26 November 2012 - 04:24 PM, said:

View PostMagickal, on 26 November 2012 - 11:28 AM, said:

View PostB0rntowildy, on 26 November 2012 - 11:05 AM, said:

View PostMagickal, on 23 November 2012 - 04:07 PM, said:

This is pretty much what I have been posting for the past month. I hope people can actually try and use valid points now. Apparently, we "hate change," yet we have stuck with the game through its various major changes; removal of the Wilderness, BH Craters, PvP worlds etc.

You know what the removal of the Wilderness, BH Craters, PvP worlds etc had in common? They all had the same combat system.
Irrelevant to my point; they are still changes.

It's not irrelevant. Obviously they're both changes, but the main thing was not changed - which was the combat system. It's easier to adapt to a different place so to speak, than it is to adapt to a new revamped system.
You do not get to divulge into itsy bitsy details, the statement that we "hate change" was a generalised one. Nonetheless, it being "easier to adapt" is subjective; some people quit over those changes, and likewise, some clans closed because of it.

Edited by Magickal, 26 November 2012 - 04:48 PM.

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#19 Semmm

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 05:37 PM

View PostLieutenant Dan, on 25 November 2012 - 07:08 PM, said:

View PostSemmm, on 23 November 2012 - 02:12 PM, said:

Now for the whole "hating change" thing. Personally while I do like EOC I agree with those who oppose it that its just not the same game anymore. Saying everyone hates change is just an ignorant argument at best.
No. Resisting change is actually a very vital part of human nature. It's part of the survival instinct. But I digress...

View PostSemmm, on 23 November 2012 - 02:12 PM, said:

Most of the player base began playing in the simple times where a whip was the the end all of weapons in the game and 85 slayer meant you were bankin. The game now and back then barely resemble each other when it comes to complexity and to some that is a turn off.
Nostalgia (n): A sentimental longing for the past, typically for a period or place with happy personal associations.

You're saying that we shouldn't say that the people who are hell-bent against the EoC aren't nostalgic, yet you defend them with the very definition of nostalgia.... Interesting, I will have to keep foolproof arguments like that in mind for the next controversial update...

The fact of the matter is that the only arguments I see against the Evolution of Combat that aren't dripping with nostalgia is that that somehow the point, click, wait style of combat was somehow unique. What the actual f***? That is in no way, shape, or form a 'unique' combat mechanic. That is a ten year old combat mechanic that is way overdue for an update. You know what other MMO had a point, click, wait mechanic for combat? Ultima Online, and that was released in 1997. RuneScape hasn't seen a vast combat update since the jump from RSC to RS2 in March 2004. For EIGHT stinking years we've had the same combat system. The same dang system. It's gotten stale, and the developers of JaGEx said themselves that they were running out of things they could do with combat to keep it mildly interesting. I am quite looking forward for the challenges that await us in the future of RuneScape instead of whining and complaining about how things used to be. Get off your nostalgic butts and evolve or die. I am sick and f***ing tired of hearing people moan about how "old RS was better" or "06scape ftw." Shut up. It's getting almost as old as the Squeal of Fortune complaints that people still seem to bring up, despite the painful truth that it's not going away. A wise man once said...

http://puu.sh/1uviq.jpg...


Resisting change is human nature? That's rather misleading. Resisting change is only human nature if that said change is in some way a stressor to their natural order of things. If one was to win millions of dollars in the lottery per say or was gifted a new luxurious mansion, I think youd be hard pressed to find human beings who would resist that change in their lifestyle.

And how exactly is saying the game is more complex now than it was years ago being nostalgic? It's just stating a fact. Some people want a bare bones simple game, others don't. Those who that complexity is forced upon are obviously going to be unhappy about it.


All I was trying to get across is the fact that saying people hate change is a terribly weak argument and I dont understand why people cant just go with the fact that some may just not like the update...Not because its just a "change" but because its not enjoyable to them...

#20 Zparanoid

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 06:55 PM

Reading through this topic and similar ones about the EOC update I can't help but get a sense of deja vu.  This is just like 2004 repeating itself all over again.  For those that might have not have been playing Runescape during the first few months of 2004, or might have forgotten, Jagex introduced a major game update that completely revolutionised the then existing combat system.  Then it was commonly known as "Runescape2".

When attacking either a player or monster, you were no longer "locked" into 3 rounds of combat before you could break out of that combat to eat, drink a potion, run away, pick something up off of the ground, or do whatever.  This meant that you could no longer "3 hit" your opponent.  This in itself was viewed an act of heresy on the part of Jagex by many (in fact probably most) of the Runescape "experts" that resided on Zybez forums at the time.

But it gets worse ...  Strength was no longer the dominant skill in combat.  Prayer and mage, which had previously been unpopular skills that few bothered to level up much in, became both easier and more beneficial to use in combat.  Rune 2 handed swords no longer enjoyed absolute dominance as the free-to-play weapon of choice, and likewise dragon battleaxes and dragon longswords now faced competition on P2P.  Furthermore entire classes of accounts, such as iron pures, prayer beasts, plate pures, and tank mages pretty much became redundant.  All those "righty diags" that took practice and impeccable timing to perfect, no longer had any use (if you dont know what that is, its a pking manouvre that existed in the RS-Classic combat system).

The end was nigh.  Runescape was doomed.  How would Runescape make it past the end of 2004 without Jagex facing bankruptcy?  Everyone was quitting the game - some even speculated as to how much longer Zybez would be able to last when facing a vanishing player base.

A handful of dissenting voices, that dared to suggest that maybe change wasnt such a bad thing afterall,that was something that could be adapted to, and new tactics and strategies were there to be learned, were uniformly shouted down across the Zybez forums (one of them being a nooby level 98 impure called "Zparanoid").

Is history about to repeat itself?


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