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Pvp Worlds Were The Right Idea?


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#21 Murdoc

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 01:02 AM

View PostCakesAreLies, on 25 March 2012 - 11:46 PM, said:

The difference between gravestone and no gravestone is who gets a free set of armor. Either the owner gets it back (easier thanks to gravestones) or everyone else loots the hell out of it.
:huh:

I think 2 minutes is a very different window to <15/1 hour, especially if you D/C after being killed at a spot which isn't necessarily the easiest place to access even with the help of a teleport in the first place (eg. maybe the DKS' lair). In regards to looting - you're not always going to die in close proximity to someone else when considering the number of people who actively look for 'empty' worlds anyway for their PvM needs. The chances of another person coming across your stuff in the meantime, whether they just logged on in the same area or whatever, are going to be considerably lower if they've only got 120 seconds to play with.

Can't see how gravestones haven't distorted the situation in ways.

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#22 CakesAreFries

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 01:17 AM

View PostMurdoc, on 26 March 2012 - 01:02 AM, said:

View PostCakesAreLies, on 25 March 2012 - 11:46 PM, said:

The difference between gravestone and no gravestone is who gets a free set of armor. Either the owner gets it back (easier thanks to gravestones) or everyone else loots the hell out of it.
:huh:

Can't see how gravestones haven't distorted the situation in ways.
My point is that gravestones pale in comparison to the wilderness. One wilderness type destroys items permanently upon death, but the other recycles them into the economy. In contrast, gravestones only slightly increased the likelihood that items are lost upon death outside the wilderness.

Edited by CakesAreLies, 26 March 2012 - 01:18 AM.

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#23 Murdoc

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 01:58 AM

View PostCakesAreLies, on 26 March 2012 - 01:17 AM, said:

My point is that gravestones pale in comparison to the wilderness. One wilderness type destroys items permanently upon death, but the other recycles them into the economy. In contrast, gravestones only slightly increased the likelihood that items are lost upon death outside the wilderness.
Oh no - I didn't mean to imply that getting rid of/nerfing gravestones would be just as effective, if not more so, than this idea on its own. I thought it'd be worth bringing up as something that could be done in tandem, s'all. ^_^

Edited by Murdoc, 26 March 2012 - 08:38 AM.

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#24 Sector Six

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 05:27 AM

PvP worlds did supplement RuneScape as a money sink quite well for an extended amount of time when they were present, over a longer period of time however I do think that you would have seen other negative effects occurring in the game though due to PvP worlds. I agree strongly with you that Jagex has made it increasingly hard to lose your items by mistake ever since the gravestone was added, the problem with this is that players don't learn the hard way anymore and can make mistakes like dying at bosses with large sums of wealth in items on and being able to make it back and retrieve them. Through PvP worlds large amounts of items were 'recycled' into the game, it was a great system but I think it received a lot of negativity from those who enjoyed PvP before the system was imposed, 76k'ing was also a big issue as far as I remember although it was resolved it was negative in terms of the games economy.

The current system as far as the return of botting (supposedly) goes, will only get worse in my eyes, something needs to change, perhaps not the exact PvP system that was in place before, it was changed for a reason, but something else that allows for rarer drops and items to be recycled back into the game. If something doesn't happen within the next year or two you will see insane issues with the economy and pricing.

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#25 Jon Jones

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 09:35 AM

I hope they bring back PVP worlds as they were pretty fun.

#26 Big Bad Tank

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 12:10 PM

View PostSector Six, on 26 March 2012 - 05:27 AM, said:

PvP worlds did supplement RuneScape as a money sink quite well for an extended amount of time when they were present, over a longer period of time however I do think that you would have seen other negative effects occurring in the game though due to PvP worlds. I agree strongly with you that Jagex has made it increasingly hard to lose your items by mistake ever since the gravestone was added, the problem with this is that players don't learn the hard way anymore and can make mistakes like dying at bosses with large sums of wealth in items on and being able to make it back and retrieve them. Through PvP worlds large amounts of items were 'recycled' into the game, it was a great system but I think it received a lot of negativity from those who enjoyed PvP before the system was imposed, 76k'ing was also a big issue as far as I remember although it was resolved it was negative in terms of the games economy.

The current system as far as the return of botting (supposedly) goes, will only get worse in my eyes, something needs to change, perhaps not the exact PvP system that was in place before, it was changed for a reason, but something else that allows for rarer drops and items to be recycled back into the game. If something doesn't happen within the next year or two you will see insane issues with the economy and pricing.
pvp worlds would be a short fix, but hopefully in the few months it actually helps the economy jagex can figure out a way to fix the economy perm... rarer drops or something.
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#27 Jimb0b

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 02:49 PM

View PostMagick, on 24 March 2012 - 02:58 PM, said:

Thing is, it is all about finding the right balance. Of course items were more costly when PKers did not receive them after killing another player, but were the PKers happy with this?

JaGEx need to find an alternative money sink, messing around with the PvP settings will only cause more trouble.
I agree whole heartily, messing with PvP settings would piss off people who came back because the Wilderness is back, it would be the same deal all over again, I mean Jagex might aswell leave the game the way it is imo.

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#28 Vulemax

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 02:57 PM

Honestly the best option for Runescape would be to make the entire game a PvP zone.  Think about how valuable everything would be!  Even just to cut logs would be someone difficult, as you would have to stay alive to bank them and such.  That would be the one thing that would drag me back to RS I believe.  Also I think they should get rid of runes and running out of arrows.
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#29 Furys_Desire

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 03:05 PM

View PostVulemax, on 27 March 2012 - 02:57 PM, said:

Honestly the best option for Runescape would be to make the entire game a PvP zone.  Think about how valuable everything would be!  Even just to cut logs would be someone difficult, as you would have to stay alive to bank them and such.  That would be the one thing that would drag me back to RS I believe.  Also I think they should get rid of runes and running out of arrows.

Not to burst your bubble but that would absolutely ruin this game, I use to be a huge pker and pvp now compared to before is junk and what you propose would ruin the game for the majority of players which are no longer pvpers. No one wants to deal with pkers killing skillers for hatchets etc, its a pain enough having some scrub pk you to get teles when your doing pengs etc.




While it did effect they prices, PVP worlds imo from the pvp persective as in being able to pk in cities was a nice addition i'd welcome back anyday. While prices where higher then thats due to free trade limits in place at the time, add on the fact the whip is no longer efficient like it once was and you'd expect the price drop. It does suck a bit for slayers but what else can be expected. Even with a smaller player base then before fact is prices on items unless effected by newer updates are going to drop at some point. With more and more being in the market more players with higher slayer. Add in more people obtaining rapiers and just no longer needing a whip, personally feel for the stats it offers whips price is pretty solid on where it should be. I never felt back in the day that there was any justice in the diffrence in stats of whip to dscim compared to the price.

Edited by Furys_Desire, 27 March 2012 - 03:07 PM.


#30 Big Bad Tank

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 04:03 PM

the whip was old and such, but what about d boots and steads? if the whip d scim thing is only worth 300k, why should steads be worth 40m more then d boots, and why should d boots drop down to the price rune boots used to be, i never once saw someone bot d boots, and almost all mid level players use d boots.
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#31 Aloof

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 05:53 PM

View PostNebbo 67, on 24 March 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

View PostReluctance, on 24 March 2012 - 03:20 PM, said:

View PostNebbo 67, on 24 March 2012 - 03:07 PM, said:

"Pvp Worlds Were The Right Idea?"


No. PvP worlds were terrible for both the economy and the pvp community.

I disagree.

Yes, they were terrible for the economy, that's a fair debate of yore, but I don't think it was that horrible for the PvP community. I mean, you got to kill anyone anywhere, essentially, which was pretty sweet. The PvP community naturally isolated themselves to certain hotspots, like Lumbridge and Varrock, to name a few. The level restrictions might have been a bit too tight, though. I got a fair kick out of the worlds, though not a healthy profit as others may have.


PvP worlds were not a money sink. They were item sinks, but the money output from these kills made these worlds fountains instead, oddly enough.

It has become a real conundrum, hasn't it? With PvP worlds and Bounty Hunter v.2, hotly used PK items such as godswords stayed high value because such items weren't on the drop list. However, people were generally pissed that they didn't get said godswords because of said drop system. Now, everyone gets (almost) exactly what they killed for, but because there is not viable item sink, these materials stay in the market infinitely longer, thus flooding the market.

It probably hasn't put much of a damper on PKing as a whole; heck, because of the cheap commodities, people can PK more while risking less. Whether or not they realize the double-edged sword of that statement is another matter.

By bad for the pk community I mean:

It promoted the mentality of not going out of sight of a bank/safezone. All of the activity was located in hotspots around banks, everyone became used to the idea of 'safe' being within a few squares reach, and they became accustomed to an easy escape.
Towards the end of pvp worlds this mentality definatly showed, pvp worlds were pretty much dead apart from around banks and this mentality has carried over to the 'old wild'. 99% of people PK in edge, the entire wilderness with the exception of revs is a desolate wasteland. Resources played a major part in that but you always had the few people wandering with the hope of finding other wanderers, now there are none.

They might have given the quick thrill, but in the long term they contributed to the decline of pvp by essentially 'babying' down the danger. Now they're all scared of going deep.

Wasn't that there before?

I apologize if I'm mistaken; I didn't really go into the wilderness much before the PvP worlds (perhaps a dozen times with intention, at most; and most of those times I didn't make it out alive. Plenty of meaningless no-iteming meandering, though).

But back when I scanned the wilderness, with the usual 3-item/nothing gear, I didn't see a soul from the graveyard onwards. There were occasional clans in the deep wilderness, some people congregating around hotspots like the dark knight castle, but it really didn't look different from the "babying" view that you see now. Heck, I did the same kind of scanning during Bounty Hunter v.2, and the same principles held: clans roamed certain patrol routes or sat at certain hotspots while true-blue 1v1 PKers avoided any place with the multi-combat cross-swords. Even despite my skepticism of going out into the wilderness to dig clues, the danger was rarely there (and I was usually foolish/unlucky enough to cross paths with... people).

With the "efficiency" mentality that would accurately represent a fair portion of Runescape players, wouldn't our current situation still occur without the PvP worlds?
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#32 supercoke

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 07:06 PM

Whips are 350k or whatever they are because chaotics are better.
Whips used to be one of the best melee weapons, now they aren't. It's as simple as that.

Anyways PvP worlds were cool and I'd like it if they came back with normal loot, but their removal doesn't have anything to do with whip price.

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#33 Nebbo 67

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 01:28 AM

View PostReluctance, on 27 March 2012 - 05:53 PM, said:

Spoiler

Wasn't that there before?

I apologize if I'm mistaken; I didn't really go into the wilderness much before the PvP worlds (perhaps a dozen times with intention, at most; and most of those times I didn't make it out alive. Plenty of meaningless no-iteming meandering, though).

But back when I scanned the wilderness, with the usual 3-item/nothing gear, I didn't see a soul from the graveyard onwards. There were occasional clans in the deep wilderness, some people congregating around hotspots like the dark knight castle, but it really didn't look different from the "babying" view that you see now. Heck, I did the same kind of scanning during Bounty Hunter v.2, and the same principles held: clans roamed certain patrol routes or sat at certain hotspots while true-blue 1v1 PKers avoided any place with the multi-combat cross-swords. Even despite my skepticism of going out into the wilderness to dig clues, the danger was rarely there (and I was usually foolish/unlucky enough to cross paths with... people).

With the "efficiency" mentality that would accurately represent a fair portion of Runescape players, wouldn't our current situation still occur without the PvP worlds?

Na it was really busy back then, you could just wander around and you would always find people. Back then people had a reason for being in pretty much any part of the wildy:

- All the mines
- Rune ore
- Red drags
- Green drags
- Picking up all the numerous resource spawns like runes/berries etc
- Lava maze/muddy keys
- Doing mage arena
- Traveling to MB to buy runes from any of the teleport locations
- Agility
- Training combat at axe hut/ice plateau etc

There were so many reasons for entering and so many places actually worth going to that not only did you have a really good chance of finding someone pretty much anywhere you bothered to dedicate some time to looking/hopping around for, but you also had a really good chance of running into other pkers doing the same thing - traveling around getting from A to B looking for people etc. The depth meant nothing, wilderness was wilderness.

Now its true that a lack of incentives to enter are a major reason why there are far fewer people in the wilderness thesedays, but there are still some really good incentives for going deep, the rune rocks are by far the most profitable, uncrowded source of rune ore in the game - People still mine this all the time, yet there is not a single PKer who will dare go there. Not joking I went there a while ago to see if it had got any action and in a week i dont think I saw a single pker in P2P. The incentive is there, the resource gatherers are there, yet the PKers are not.
The same goes for the type of pkers that used to just roam around looking for anyone, they are non existant as well.

Yet if we take a similar example of green dragons - The resource gatherers are there (bots), and the opportunistic pkers are there, and the pkers that prey upon those.

The green dragons around Lv20 are by far the busiest, the green dragons around the 35 portal are significantly less busy, and the runerocks in lvl44 are completely dead. The only difference between these locations is the depth. They all have that 'attraction' to bring pkers in, but noone is willing to go out of range of an easy teleport... It's pathetic.

Edited by Nebbo 67, 28 March 2012 - 09:36 AM.

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#34 pokerplease

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 11:39 AM

i thought pvp worlds were a good idea, helped some not so rich people have a chance of hitting it big.




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