[hedla_str]

Natures Idol, on 29 October 2009 - 05:12 PM, said:

I'm happy with how much RWT and Botting has been stopped from what it was 2 years ago, even if it's not perfect. As long as Jagex keep making an effort, I'm happy :)

There is still THOUSANDS of bots around, it's just that they get better and better by time, making them more undetectable

(might be some spelling mistakes in there.)

[Alagos]

Earthman155, on 29 October 2009 - 05:27 PM, said:

Another thing is Grand Exchange. I mean, it's easy to get the items for quests and other skills. But merchanting has been made more complicated... I used to make around 200k an hour merchanting coal in Falador, but now, I don't even merchant, because I don't know how to...

The Grand Exchange is like killing two birds with one stone for Jagex because they've been doing whatever they can to prevent people from Merchanting, while making other things easier for players, I know it is annoying not being able to merchant but Jagex sees it as an unfair advantage I guess .

[Bolshevik]

Alagos, on 31 October 2009 - 05:14 AM, said:

Earthman155, on 29 October 2009 - 05:27 PM, said:

Another thing is Grand Exchange. I mean, it's easy to get the items for quests and other skills. But merchanting has been made more complicated... I used to make around 200k an hour merchanting coal in Falador, but now, I don't even merchant, because I don't know how to...

The Grand Exchange is like killing two birds with one stone for Jagex because they've been doing whatever they can to prevent people from Merchanting, while making other things easier for players, I know it is annoying not being able to merchant but Jagex sees it as an unfair advantage I guess .

The Grand Exchange has in fact simplified merchanting in a sense because the available items for merchanting, are now easily at hand and can be bought in a rather large quantity easily. I do agree however that Jagex doesn't like merchanting, but it's more along the lines of they hate the merchanting clans that you see at the Grand Exchange, for two reasons; they are spamming their merchanting clan name, and most of the time, the clan is scamming innocent peoples. Merchanting is always going to be around, no matter what Jagex tries to do, it's just an economic profit idea that some people are knowledgeable about, and are smart enough to take advantage of the gain or loss of an item at a certain time; even if they limit certain items at the Grand Exchange sometimes.

[Gum]

I disagree with you, I think they did more good then bad to the game after removal of old wilde etc.
I think that if they wouldnt of done it, Rs would look like chaos atm with tons of tons of bots, and many people complaining about hacking and people with mils that got there items botted by chinease botters etc.

I think they did the right thing, might not be in the best way but the goal was good.

[iAssasin]

We have to remember that JaGex is a company, who make their income from website advertisement and more importantly, P2P membership.

Instances like RWT and the incredible ease of scamming people was fast becoming a legal issue for them. JaGex were being constantly pressured by parents to set limits for the well-being of the younger players, and also having their virtual property profited from by illegal companies. From a business perspective, it would have been nonsensical to ignore these two major problems.

Linking this issue to UK knife crime is also a rather odd analogy; there are so many political, cultural, racial, and class-based factors surrounding knife crime that comparing it to something like JaGex's business plan is rather weak.

[I be skiillz]

Kylet11, on 29 October 2009 - 04:16 PM, said:

Don't matter jagex doesnt care about the economy, they care about that pretty pay check at the end of the week.

I agree with this. More people are made happy by the RwT being stopped than are not happy with it. I for one aren't to fussed i don't think it has really effected me much i never used to pk and i always did fair trades etc.

I understand they have done a good job but i imagine the reall reason for this is they prefer to make pretty pennies than letting other people make
them.

[Bolshevik]

I be skiillz, on 03 November 2009 - 12:15 PM, said:

Kylet11, on 29 October 2009 - 04:16 PM, said:

Don't matter jagex doesnt care about the economy, they care about that pretty pay check at the end of the week.

I agree with this. More people are made happy by the RwT being stopped than are not happy with it. I for one aren't to fussed i don't think it has really effected me much i never used to pk and i always did fair trades etc.

I understand they have done a good job but i imagine the reall reason for this is they prefer to make pretty pennies than letting other people make
them.

Although it might have been somewhat nice to be able to have free trade and the other niceties of the older days, but the choice that Jagex made, was one beneficial to their reputation, as well as keeping away lawsuits because of the RWT. How much money they are making is irrelevant in this situation because if anything, they cut down on it significantly when they did away with the macroers and botters who bought membership to do very little in fact. Not everything has to come down to Jagex wanting to make more money, rather than taking care of their players, but in fact it comes down to how they choose to run their company, and keep people coming into the game at flux.

[Mashed Up Mash]

I be skiillz, on 03 November 2009 - 05:15 PM, said:

Kylet11, on 29 October 2009 - 04:16 PM, said:

Don't matter jagex doesnt care about the economy, they care about that pretty pay check at the end of the week.

I agree with this. More people are made happy by the RwT being stopped than are not happy with it. I for one aren't to fussed i don't think it has really effected me much i never used to pk and i always did fair trades etc.

I understand they have done a good job but i imagine the reall reason for this is they prefer to make pretty pennies than letting other people make
them.

You may not have been bothered about the RWTer's or anything else that JaGex have got rid of (95% anyway) but i can almost certianly gurantee than more than 75% paying members hated them.

And as said earlier on this thread,

Bad Game = No Pay For JaGex

So they obviously do care about the game and not their pay checks because if that was all they cared about then they wouldn't be getting payed?

I am 100% for all the recent updates JaGex have done to prevent RWT because i don't know about anybody else but i for sure don't want to be paying part of my wages from work towards a game where people cheat there way through it by buying the rs gp.

Also i want the game to stay aslong as possible or until i aleast get bored of it and if JaGeX didn't make them changes... the game would probably have been long gone by now.

[own ur bl00d]

I think we were better off with RWT. 76king is messing up the RS economy bad. I do like the new drop systems, but I think RuneScape as a whole was better with the old system.

There was no one illegitimately creating money that way, people actually had to make money themselves. Regardless of if they RWTed it or not, the money was legitimately made, which made the economy more stable.

Alagos, on 31 October 2009 - 05:14 AM, said:

Earthman155, on 29 October 2009 - 05:27 PM, said:

Another thing is Grand Exchange. I mean, it's easy to get the items for quests and other skills. But merchanting has been made more complicated... I used to make around 200k an hour merchanting coal in Falador, but now, I don't even merchant, because I don't know how to...

The Grand Exchange is like killing two birds with one stone for Jagex because they've been doing whatever they can to prevent people from Merchanting, while making other things easier for players, I know it is annoying not being able to merchant but Jagex sees it as an unfair advantage I guess .

What? JaGex actually supports merchanting. And merchanting through the grand exchange is very easy too. You make way more money than you used to.

This post has been edited by own ur bl00d: 03 November 2009 - 02:23 PM

[kyoshin]

Ok, my turn! And really now, haven't there been several hundred topics on this over what was needed?

Fartcaster, on 29 October 2009 - 09:29 AM, said:

So we all know that Jagex have done a lot, and I mean a hell of a lot of updates to try and crack down on RwT, but in all honesty I think they've done more bad than good to the game. I know for a fact that RwT has been lowered a hell of a lot, but there will always be a 'method' and RwT will still happen. As for PvP worlds and Bounty Hunter worlds. They have only had a minor affect on the RwT issues throughout the game, but they have had a major affect on the economy, which at the end of the day is a worse issue than RwT. Is it the case of Jagex having to calm down?

I see it like this. The UK is nowhere near perfect. Let's take Gun/Knife crime for an example. The UK is trying it's best to stop this crime, but it is impossible to stop it. There will always be a way for people to get Knifes, whether they are from another Country or from an innocent shop like Tesco's, Sainsbury's or whatever it may be. Which kind of relates to Runescape.

But when push comes to shove, it is virtually impossible to find a solution to the RwT problems without affecting another section of the game, I.E; the economy.

Opinions?

To my knowledge, they had little choice in their actions. Real world trading had a very good chance of taking their game down. Not only that, it violated their terms of service. You can't blame Jagex for enforcing their rules and keeping their lively-hood up and running, can you?
Bounty hunter/PvP worlds were NOT meant as an anti real world trading mechanism, that was removing the old wilderness, which was a MASSIVE blow to real world traders. These new worlds were implemented to appease the PvP community.
Finaly, to touch on your impossible to eliminate real world trading point, this is sadly true. BUT the only way they can do this now, to my knowledge, is through being given an accounts login details and playing the game for them. Which is impossible to eliminate unless they were to restrict each account to be logged in on a single ip.

Kylet11, on 29 October 2009 - 10:16 AM, said:

Don't matter jagex doesnt care about the economy, they care about that pretty pay check at the end of the week.

Earthman155, on 29 October 2009 - 10:27 AM, said:

It was better playing when bots were arround, they never bothered me.

Another thing is Grand Exchange. I mean, it's easy to get the items for quests and other skills. But merchanting has been made more complicated... I used to make around 200k an hour merchanting coal in Falador, but now, I don't even merchant, because I don't know how to...

I loved the prices when bots were around, they kept prices just right, the income of fresh material in game was just right. That's one thing I liked about RuneScape; stabile market. Now, Jagex can manually control prices, which in my opinion, is very bad, because prices should be based on players, now the Jagex team...

What are you talking about!? Bots themselves may not have bothered you, but did their interference with resource collecting? Or the childish obsession with calling/reporting everyone that doesn't feel like answering 'wc lvl' every 3 minutes?
Merchanting, it's still around, not just in clan form either. You can still merchant. Did it not take you time to learn how to do it before? So take the time and learn again, as far as i know, many people have been far more successful merchanting with the grand exchange then before.
Prices were kept lower on raw materials, yes, but that hurt more then it helped. Skills were easier to train, you had to have smaller amounts of gp to buy them, the people who gathered the materials without a bot got an unfairly low price.

Aserwarth, on 30 October 2009 - 05:56 AM, said:

Really, another RWT topic.

They had to do what they did. I know it is not gone forever, and never will be, but that being said it has to be done. The game has been affected dramatically by it, but it would NOT exist anymore if actions were never taken. This any action by Jagex was justified.

THANK YOU!

Gee I feel like I left so much out XD

[Sirkyles]

I believe that this is okay. Yes you will never completely remove the RWT, but it is down ALOT as in probably 95%+. The economy is part of the game. I do not mind how the economy changes and moves up and down, or whatever you think is the "problem" with economy because you never really stated. Economy is in the real world, people make investments and some company screws up a product and that person losses money while the real economy bounces around it is just like in the game.

People can get rich from manipulating the economy and pking(76king) systems but that is okay with me. It is okay with me because it takes skill. Peoples lives revolve around the real world economy, and finding loop holes in which to make money. You have accountants, investment brokers and many other jobs. These people are trained and have skills in doing this. Calling up a person and saying I will give you this much money for something in runescape is not skill. A three year old could do that if his parents game him some money.

Any way of making money that takes some kind of skill i do not have a problem with. That is how life works. Skills can be anything from finding a loophole to following investments. Finally for everyone who says joining a merchanting group is not skill is not true. There are companies in the real world who do just that. They find some company or investment that is a good ideas, buy the company, put money in and back it to do well, and sell it later for many times more than it was worth when they bought it. Also usually after they sell the company will diminish a bit because the new company can not back it like the old. It is a skill to be able to forsee the potential, use money to buy the item, back it, have many people with power to help you, and sell for more money.

In the end I like economy problems and ways to make money from it, than the cheating ways of real world trading.

[Setanta]

Unless they somehow find a way to stop people telling other people their passwords to log onto their account to train for them (Which is impossible), RWT will never be gone. The best they can do is reduce it to a point where an actual company cannot operate efficiently.

Reducing it to such a degree may have an affect on the Runescape economy. But isn't it better than having it affect the real life economy? If not for the remove of the wilderness Jagex would have been sued and sued to the point they would have to shut down. As we all know, companies shutting down, be they banks or game companies, is bad for the economy. So, a few hundred jobs and a couple million pound has been saved from dissipating out of the economy, the only side effect? A games economy going through a slight rough patch. Hardly the worst outcome possible.

[Sirkyles]

iAssasin, on 31 October 2009 - 07:27 AM, said:

Instances like RWT and the incredible ease of scamming people was fast becoming a legal issue for them. JaGex were being constantly pressured by parents to set limits for the well-being of the younger players, and also having their virtual property profited from by illegal companies. From a business perspective, it would have been nonsensical to ignore these two major problems.

Ok I am so sick of people saying protection for children. Who cares if there children lose something in a video game, or die in the game once every one hundred years. We do not need to protect our children more, it is a joke. The real world has the exact same problems, and if you stop our children from learning by setting limits so you can't accidentally give away all your money because you are too stupid to check then when they get in the real world and someone offers them this beautiful credit card fraud they will have no idea. How are they going to learn! Oh man this topic annoys me, if you get scammed(i sure have) you learn... it happens.

But I am not going against you iAssasin they are protecting the children, the topic just annoys me so much. I do agree with your statement about Jagex needing to stop the illegal companies and look at it from a business perspective.

own ur bl00d, on 03 November 2009 - 03:28 PM, said:

I think we were better off with RWT. 76king is messing up the RS economy bad. I do like the new drop systems, but I think RuneScape as a whole was better with the old system.

There was no one illegitimately creating money that way, people actually had to make money themselves. Regardless of if they RWTed it or not, the money was legitimately made, which made the economy more stable.

ARE YOU JOKING WITH ME? Was is "Legitimately Made", as in it was sold coal... that was mined by some under payed Chinese boy in a work camp.
Or then was it "Legitimately Made" by the person who sold real money for runescape money having to do nothing for it.
Or was it "Legitimately Made" by the bot who cut all the yew trees.

Just because something was sold to make the money does not mean is was legitimately made, how do you think any economy works?
Do you call your parents retirement investments not "Legitimately made" because they made investments and did not sell something to obtain that increased wealth.

Oh man, I do not understand how you can say that, I am a bit fired up, and confused.

[Amherstclane]

Hi everyone,
I think also same When there is a problem and everything you seem to do to stop it occurs, that does not equate to you stopped whole heartedly and just giving up. It might seem kinda stupid from the outside, like why would you even try when it is going to happen no matter what you do, but it comes down to morals more than anything else. When you know something is bad and you want to do something about it, pretty much you will do anything in order to stop it. RWT was a huge problem, but it did have its general good effects on the economy, it kept most of the necessary items at hand pretty low, and kept things working in a somewhat decent fashion.RWT was a problem that has been,for the most part, taken care of by Jagex; if it pops up again, because I know it will, Jagex is going to try to keep it out of their game because they want their game to be fair.

Thanks

This post has been edited by Amherstclane: 16 November 2009 - 12:13 AM

[viva la amar]

Arno, on 29 October 2009 - 10:22 AM, said:

Kylet11, on 29 October 2009 - 05:16 PM, said:

Don't matter jagex doesnt care about the economy, they care about that pretty pay check at the end of the week.

They do care about their pay check, but that also implies that they need to care about the economy.

The game = their pay check.
Bad game = no pay check.

You fail to remember that alternatives could have been instated instead of recreating one of the most entertaining aspects of the game. To imply that it was a one-way road is just stupid.

[Lycan]

I think they should keep on trying because as long as it's "Rare" it isn't a problem. Also if they didn't add all these Anti-RwT updates then even the common player or the so called "Honest/Legit Player" would start cheating.

[Meili]

I don't really care *that* much about RWT. The only time I ever cared was when it interfered with my gameplay, when those farmers would be 20 to a tree. So far it seems RWT is still happening but much less than before.

[Goyatuzo]

The important part is Jagex is trying. It may not be the best way to prevent problems in this game, but nonetheless they are trying their best to make RWT as hard as possible.

I do want to praise them for how dedicated they are, but sometimes these changes are on the player's expense. Grand Exchange was a great idea, but at the same time the trade limit severely limits the idea to "what it could be" rather than what it is. It could be an auction house where everybody can trade freely, and because all transactions are automated, scams shouldn't happen as often. It is an auction house where players have to set their prices between two set numbers that fluctuates depending on the supply and demand. People who want a bargain can't find one, and likewise people who want to get rid of items can't set prices low enough to be visually appealing.

[Arno]

viva la amar, on 12 November 2009 - 07:14 PM, said:

Arno, on 29 October 2009 - 10:22 AM, said:

Kylet11, on 29 October 2009 - 05:16 PM, said:

Don't matter jagex doesnt care about the economy, they care about that pretty pay check at the end of the week.

They do care about their pay check, but that also implies that they need to care about the economy.

The game = their pay check.
Bad game = no pay check.

You fail to remember that alternatives could have been instated instead of recreating one of the most entertaining aspects of the game. To imply that it was a one-way road is just stupid.

Good thing that I don't imply that it was a one-way road, then. I don't want to look stupid.